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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    4

    Default Police Harassment Due to Carrying Scales and Money

    My question involves civil rights in the State of: Michigan

    Tonight I was pulled over for what was said to be a broken back window. He asked for my and my friend's ID. He asked me why it was broken and said that many people break back windows on convertibles and wanted to check that the car wasn't stolen. He comes back to my car and asks me to step out. He asks me to stand next to my vehicle and proceeds a pat down for what I would think would be weapons. (That's the only thing a pat down is meant to reveal)

    Then he without permission the officer starts rummaging through my pockets. Which to my knowledge is an illegal search of person. He finds a digital scale and $600 dollars on me and questions it. I said that my step-dads a jeweler and that I buy and sell gold. (which is all true, he pays me like $15 a gram of gold.) Obviously he finds this suspicious and asks me for my permission to search my vehicle. Too which I deny that permission. (I now know he doesn't have probable cause or he wouldn't have to ask.)

    He tells me that they are going to get a K-9 unit and have the dog run around my car. The dog runs around and barks. (I know that handlers have the ability to make there dogs go off, and I believe that is what she did) The handler comes to me and tries to use intimidation tactics to make me admit there was something in the vehicle. I stand firm that there is nothing in the car, because there truly wasn't.

    They without permission the female officer enters my car with the dog and start tearing my car apart. Meanwhile I'm stuck in the back of a squad car for probably like 30 minutes. They come back, after finding nothing, and give me my ID, my money and my scale back.

    This guy wasn't freaking patting me down, he put his hand up my ass, and gripped on my penis and testicles. I felt very violated, for them in the end to find absolutely nothing illegal in my car. I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life. I feel like I was personally violated as well as civilly.

    Can I do anything to recourse?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Key West, FL
    Posts
    2,350

    Default Re: Do I Have a Case Against the City

    They really were on a fishing expedition.

    This is one of the more extreme cases of that I have heard here.

    The problem is that illegal search and seizure can really only be fought if a criminal case was involved and your lawyer would move to have the evidence excluded.

    You would be hard pressed to prove much in the way of damages, even if you could get a court to find the cops liable in the first place, which is extremely unlikely.

    However, first things first. File a state freedom of information request for the voice and data communications traffic between the units and with dispatch. Get a copy of any video if the cars have cameras. The system should be running if their lights are activated. Not all police cars have camera systems I have discovered, especially those used by cops in training in the field. I guess they don't want video if the newbie screws up.

    You can review these materials with an attorney and see if there is any case.

    You can also file a formal complaint with internal affairs and the local CBR if your area has such a board. Of course, that will really piss off the cops and you might be painting a big target on your backside.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Do I Have a Case Against the City

    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    View Post
    Tonight I was pulled over for what was said to be a broken back window. He asked for my and my friend's ID. He asked me why it was broken and said that many people break back windows on convertibles and wanted to check that the car wasn't stolen.
    Fair enough.
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    He comes back to my car and asks me to step out. He asks me to stand next to my vehicle and proceeds a pat down for what I would think would be weapons. (That's the only thing a pat down is meant to reveal)
    Okay....
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    Then he without permission the officer starts rummaging through my pockets. Which to my knowledge is an illegal search of person. He finds a digital scale and $600 dollars on me and questions it.
    The officer does not have to leave in your pockets items that may be weapons, or may be used to conceal weapons. Also, if during the pat-down it is obvious that somebody is carrying contraband, the "plain feel" exception can kick in. I have no access to the police report, so I don't know how the officer characterizes what the items felt like during the pat-down, or his justification for removing them for closer examination. Care to fill us in?
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    I said that my step-dads a jeweler and that I buy and sell gold. (which is all true, he pays me like $15 a gram of gold.) Obviously he finds this suspicious and asks me for my permission to search my vehicle. Too which I deny that permission. (I now know he doesn't have probable cause or he wouldn't have to ask.)
    Yes, as you say, obviously he found that story suspicious. I doubt anybody reading this believes you were carrying around a scale and $600 "just in case" you ran into somebody on a street corner who wanted to sell you gold.
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    He tells me that they are going to get a K-9 unit and have the dog run around my car. The dog runs around and barks. (I know that handlers have the ability to make there dogs go off, and I believe that is what she did) The handler comes to me and tries to use intimidation tactics to make me admit there was something in the vehicle. I stand firm that there is nothing in the car, because there truly wasn't.
    Your speculation as to why the dog reacted to your car is unlikely to carry the day. If there's video of the traffic stop, you can have your lawyer or expert witness look for any way in which the officer might have signaled the dog.
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    They without permission the female officer enters my car with the dog and start tearing my car apart. Meanwhile I'm stuck in the back of a squad car for probably like 30 minutes.
    The dog's reaction gave them probable cause. They could legally detain you during the search.
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    They come back, after finding nothing, and give me my ID, my money and my scale back.
    Oh happy day.
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    This guy wasn't freaking patting me down, he put his hand up my ass, and gripped on my penis and testicles.
    That's a frisk, as opposed to a pat-down. That goes beyond a Terry level stop. Did that happen before or after the dog reacted to your car?
    Quote Quoting Xakarath
    I felt very violated, for them in the end to find absolutely nothing illegal in my car. I've never felt more uncomfortable in my life. I feel like I was personally violated as well as civilly.
    The initial traffic stop for defective equipment was valid. I am not sure that the initial pat-down was conducted properly, as previously described - if you have more information from the officer's report, or about when the frisk occurred, it would be helpful.

    If the detection of the scale and money was proper, it seems reasonable to bring in a drug dog to sniff the car. If the dog "hits" on the car, it is reasonable to search the car. I am skeptical that you will be able to prove that the dog's handler acted improperly.

    You do not appear to have suffered much in the way of damages, above and beyond a half hour's inconvenience. You can consult a civil rights lawyer about the possibility of litigation, but the damages don't seem sufficient to support the cost of a lawsuit. Also, in the event you try to litigate the story about having the money and scale to buy gold will go under a microscope.

    You may make a complaint about how the stop was conducted with the officer's supervisor, or depending upon your city with a local citizens review board.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Do I Have a Case Against the City

    I have called an attorney, and probably will have to call him again. I plan on calling the ACLU next week as well as I'm filing a complaint against them with their LT. on friday.

    I'll get the police report and get back to this post.

    And I always carried a scale and some cash. Not because I would "run into someone at a street corner." I just carry it like a carpenter would carry a hammer. Would that guy be looked at like a murderer? I don't see why I have to be looked at like a criminal. Now I'm paranoid about doing it.

    Edit: They searched me 3 separate times. Twice before the dog, one being a "frisk", and again I was "frisked" after they gave up on searching my car, just before they let me go.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Do I Have a Case Against the City

    It's not even so much the scale by itself - it is more the wad of cash and the LACK of receipts and records. Legit businesses persons make records of buys and sells - ESPECIALLY when dealing with gold (which often comes in the form of jewelry - one of the most commonly stolen items that people re-sell for quick cash). They make receipts with a date, a description of what was bought (a watch, ring, necklace, what?) subjects name and address that they bought the gold from, and how much they paid for each item, so that when law enforcement (who really does do stings on such things) accuses the dealer of possessing stolen jewelry, they have kept records like a legit business would. In many states, such businesses even take fingerprints before accepting such merchandise, to protect themselves from being involved in the swap of stolen goods. Cash without paperwork always means bad business, and very often means CRIMINAL business. Just like you'd be suspicious to be walking down the street with pockets full of gold jewelry that is meant for the opposite gender or of you gender but doesn't fit you. It's gonna raise suspicion if you're walking around with a scale and cash ONLY. Because the only thing weighed MORE than gold, is drugs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Do I Have a Case Against the City

    Quote Quoting aardvarc
    View Post
    It's not even so much the scale by itself - it is more the wad of cash and the LACK of receipts and records. Legit businesses persons make records of buys and sells - ESPECIALLY when dealing with gold (which often comes in the form of jewelry - one of the most commonly stolen items that people re-sell for quick cash). They make receipts with a date, a description of what was bought (a watch, ring, necklace, what?) subjects name and address that they bought the gold from, and how much they paid for each item, so that when law enforcement (who really does do stings on such things) accuses the dealer of possessing stolen jewelry, they have kept records like a legit business would. In many states, such businesses even take fingerprints before accepting such merchandise, to protect themselves from being involved in the swap of stolen goods. Cash without paperwork always means bad business, and very often means CRIMINAL business. Just like you'd be suspicious to be walking down the street with pockets full of gold jewelry that is meant for the opposite gender or of you gender but doesn't fit you. It's gonna raise suspicion if you're walking around with a scale and cash ONLY. Because the only thing weighed MORE than gold, is drugs.
    I see why that can be important; however from you wording, it makes it seem guilty until proven innocent. It's very sad how corrupt things have become. I guess I never thought of keeping records, I trade off cragslist and such. I don't make records of stuff I buy off that sight. I sell just as often. Jewlery, electronics, cars. I do side jobs repairing a computer and such. Anything I can think of really.

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