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  1. #1
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    Default Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    My question involves a traffic citation from the state of: California.

    There is an "extra-legal" parking enforcement problem in the alley behind my house. Me and several of the neighbors are working on getting this problem fixed, by various means. I got a marginally related parking ticket in this alley, which I am disputing. The purpose is mainly to gather information about, or draw attention to, our parking problem. I would also like my $65 dollars back, thank you very much.

    The legal situation: In the City of San Diego, it is by default a violation to park in an alley unless it is signed for parking. It is a violation to park blocking any driveway or garage, including your own. Parking has been "decriminalized" and is handled by the San Diego Parking Authority. The first appeal is by mail and is free, which I have already lost, with a curt "Driver must follow signs" response. You gotta pay for the second appeal, and I have paid my $65. I am scheduled for an in person May 11th hearing. The third and final appeal, for $25 more, is a "Trial Nova" in Superior Court.

    Background: The block in question is located in the Old Mission Beach area of the city. For those not familiar with the area, suffice to say it is truly a world class parking cluster fandango. Urban legend says people have been murdered over parking. Back in the day the alleys and Bayside Lane were routinely an impassible maze of "semi-legally" parked cars. That all ended one day in the mid 1980s when the city painted every inch of the alleys and Bayside Lane red, and changed the signs to read "No Parking in Red Zone". But my hometown, San Diego, in the 1980s had a truly corrupt government and culture so...

    The "extra-legal" situation: About a dozen very rich landlords, most of which were financially politically active at the time, were given "special", so called "Letters or Parking Marque". The letters, somehow, allow these landlords to decide where and if the red-line will be painted adjacent to their property, and exempts them from parking enforcement adjacent to their property.

    For those who did not grew up in San Diego: This is all standard here, but just so I can say I'm "Taking off my Tin Foil Hat": I can give links for the obvious CA V.C. and SD M.C. laws. I can give Google Map links for about a dozen of these "zones", with a detailed description of how the red-lines are intentionally incorrectly painted or omitted. Every other satellite image site on the internet, including Historical Aerials going back to the 1980s show cars parked in violation in these "zones". We have had some of these landlords waive "their letters" in our faces. We have had city workers verify the existence of the letters. And, since one of the landlords on our block is selling his house, we have his real estate agents own description. The "extra space" referred to is completely in the city owned and improved alley, blocking two different garages...

    [name, contact info redacted],

    We asked the seller to explain the parking situation in further detail, and basically the new buyer has the power to install 2 red lines on the alley whenever they want. Our sellers have opted not to install the red line since it adds more parking for their property/vacation renters (SUVs). Let us know if you would like to view the property.

    From Seller RE: Parking:

    Whoever buys [address redacted] is in the driver’s seat… [...] Second because we do have a functional garage we could have a red line put on both sides of the alley.. That would start a war and my feeling is in the long run everyone would lose… [...] Again you always have the red line as leverage… Not that I would ever use it..

    Why would you leave it as is??? The current situation actually gives you one more parking space. Two in the garage and one in front of the garage [...] The best part is that the third spot (by agreement) still supports a supersized [sic] car.. It is great for guests you part [sic] the car which carries the most people on the outside and the rest in the garage. The lane on that side is a straight drive through so easy in and out.. The city supports the current situation (and has been out to inspect in the last month) because to quote them it is less cars competing for parking on the street... When [name redacted] explained this all to me last week again he was a bit nervous about it… I told him not to worry as long as I was there I like the extra parking spot.. So tell your perspective buyer he would hold all the cards.. The only thing [name redacted] could do is delay the inevitable… I would suggest the new buyer try out the current parking arrangement he may find he really likes the extra space.. Which provides additional storage in the garage for canoes, bikes, small water craft if he likes. Tell him an extra space in Mission Beach sanctioned by the City (not officially but what they said is they would not enforce the red line rule) it was also inspected by the police and they also said as long as no one complains it is Ok and it actually helps the City with its parking issues.. On July 4th as you know that extra parking space is worth $75…. for one day

    [name of real estate agent, contact info redacted]
    So, my questions ITT are the following...

    1. Is it worth the extra $25 bucks to go to Superior Court. Would we get any useful "discover" or subpoena powers for the money? Is it possible to make any headway with a "estoppel" or "selective enforcement" argument in hear (in anyone's opinion). Is any of this possible if we cannot afford a lawyer?

    2. Is it truly a "Trail Nova"? Or does what transpires at the second appeal hearing, or the first appeal essay for that matter, get into "the record", or whatever? What should be my goal at this hearing?

    3. OK, any general advice to getting this situation in our alley fixed, even if I don't get my $65 back.

    Thanks folks,
    Unk Diego

    My question involves a traffic citation from the state of: California

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    So, on what grounds are you appealing? Are you appealing because your actions failed to meet the elements of the offense as defined in the Municipal Code? Or, is your appeal based upon some nebulous past practice and that your ticket is not fair?

    If the former, you might have some grounds if you can show that where you were parked is not covered by the ordinance. If the latter, you might want to save the appeal money as it does not matter whether others have received citations or not at some point in the past or even concurrent to your offense, only your offense will be up for consideration.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    So, on what grounds are you appealing? [...] that your ticket is not fair?
    Yes, even though I am guilty, I believe my citation was unfair. There are three areas in this block: Non-Painted-No-Enforce, Red-No-Enforce, and Red-Enforce. I was parked in the Red-Enforce area with part of my bumper over the red line.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    If the latter, you might want to save the appeal money as it does not matter whether others have received citations [...] even concurrent to your offense, only your offense will be up for consideration.
    Thank you sir! That is the kind of answer I am looking for regarding making a "selective enforcement" argument. You are saying it is a waste of time.

    One would think that during the "decriminalization" of parking (where the cities were freed maximize revenue and run parking as a profit making business), that some additional burden was placed on the cities to extract that profit in a fair and evenhanded manner. Here they pick and choose who to charge to park on the city streets. But of course, slavery was legal too, so who knows?

    However, it might not be a waste of money. If we had credible documentation that citations have never been issued on one side of the street, but have always been issued on the other. If we had testimony that these "Letters of Parking Marque" exist and influence city policy. If we had testimony from rank-and-file SDPD officers (some of whom despise these "zones") that these extra-legal "spaces" do in fact "exist", and they are given written or oral instructions to respect them, well ... maybe we can talk or shame the city into changing their policy here. Since I am already out the $65, my other question is for just $25 more can we got some of these other benefits through "discovery" or subpoena? We cannot afford to pay an investigator to gather this information.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    You are trying to "push a rope" in fighting this in the court system. If you want to change this practice, you should rally your neighbors, contact your city councilman, the mayor, etc. You may not succeed, but you have a better chance doing that than wasting your money by violating the law and hoping to get the courts to overturn the ticket.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    Quote Quoting Unk Diego
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    Yes, even though I am guilty, I believe my citation was unfair. There are three areas in this block: Non-Painted-No-Enforce, Red-No-Enforce, and Red-Enforce. I was parked in the Red-Enforce area with part of my bumper over the red line.
    I used to work down there and I do not recall any such delineation. An enforceable violation was an enforceable violation, there were no dual "enforce" and "no enforce" zones. Maybe the law has changed since I left 9 years ago - you wouldn't happen to have a muni code section for that, would you?

    Thank you sir! That is the kind of answer I am looking for regarding making a "selective enforcement" argument. You are saying it is a waste of time.
    If you violated the section and have no valid defense, then, yes, it is a waste of time.

    Selective enforcement is lawful. Discretion, is lawful. Unless you were targeted solely because of your perceived membership in a protected class of people or as some sort of articulable and specific retaliatory conduct, you have no real defense. The fact that others were NOT cited is NOT a defense.

    One would think that during the "decriminalization" of parking (where the cities were freed maximize revenue and run parking as a profit making business), that some additional burden was placed on the cities to extract that profit in a fair and evenhanded manner.
    Local government has been handling parking violations for well before my introduction to law enforcement nearly 23 years ago.

    Here they pick and choose who to charge to park on the city streets. But of course, slavery was legal too, so who knows?
    Of course, the slavery reference is an entirely irrelevant argument.

    However, it might not be a waste of money. If we had credible documentation that citations have never been issued on one side of the street, but have always been issued on the other. If we had testimony that these "Letters of Parking Marque" exist and influence city policy. If we had testimony from rank-and-file SDPD officers (some of whom despise these "zones") that these extra-legal "spaces" do in fact "exist", and they are given written or oral instructions to respect them, well ... maybe we can talk or shame the city into changing their policy here. Since I am already out the $65, my other question is for just $25 more can we got some of these other benefits through "discovery" or subpoena? We cannot afford to pay an investigator to gather this information.
    Okay ... it's your time and money to spend as you see fit.

    Once again, however, the court is not going to care on whit about all of that - they are going to hear the matter of YOUR ticket and why you are not guilty. Once you admit that you are guilty, you will be shut down from any and all extraneous argument ... unless you get a very bored and spineless judge. None of this is relevant to YOUR citation which is all the court will be there to hear. If you want to engage an attorney to sue the city for some sort of disparate treatment, or rabble rouse for a change in policy or practice with the Council, that is a separate matter.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    Quote Quoting Scott67
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    You are trying to "push a rope" in fighting this in the court system. If you want to change this practice, you should rally your neighbors, contact your city councilman, the mayor, etc. You may not succeed, but you have a better chance doing that than wasting your money by violating the law and hoping to get the courts to overturn the ticket.
    Well yes, several of us here on our block are "pushing rope" up several places. We are also "pushing rope" with City Engineering Rank&File, City Engineering Bosses, City Streets Rank&File, City Streets Bosses, SDPD Patrol Rank&File, SDPD Parking Enforcement Rank&File, SDPD Community Relations, SDPD Internal Affairs, SDPD Northern Division Command, SDPD Traffic Command, SDPD Office of the Chief, SD Citizens Police Review Board, SDCA Neighborhood Code Enforcement Unit, SDCA Executive Office, City Councilman's Council Representative, City Councilman's Office, Office of the Mayor, and have been actively (yet again), for the last eight months. We expect to "push rope" up the CA State Board of Real Estate (or whatever), CA Coastal Commission, SDCA Financial Crimes Unit (or whatever), SD County Investigative Grand Jury, CA Franchise Tax Board, IRS, among others. If that all fails, we have the Turco Files", the San Diego Reader, leaflets, public meetings, and enough junker bicycles, which for a $35 city license, can legally park anywhere a car can.

    We do not have to "win in court" to win. To make a poker analogy, these are all drawing hands, but we have "odds" to draw (because it is free, or the price of postage). We are staying away from either/or thinking (like trying only one way), and avoiding playing the "blame game". We just want things fixed going forward.

    Different groupings of neighbors have tried to fight this fight, going back before I moved to this block, in 1986. This fight has been waged before, I remember signing notarized letters and chipping in for Certified Mail, all ignored. We wasted well over $25 for that nonsense, each time. This time we are doing several thing different. One is that even if we fail again, we are doing to document, document, document, so that the next grouping of neighbors doesn't have to start over from scratch, again.

    We all agreed that the next neighbor who inadvertently got a citation would go through the motions and appeal it. We can all agree to chip in $25 to go to court, less than a *beer* each. If we gain any useful information, it is well worth it, right there. Nobody is willing to agree to hire a lawyer, on an opened ended agreement, for hundreds of dollars, to sue the city, period. To make a poker analogy again (sorry), for the $25 we might still be getting enough "information" to use on later hands (the above people), that it is worth a calling, even if we know we are probably calling dead.

    But, I guess my question is, can we get a significant amount of "bang for our buck" by paying the $25, just from the information that could be gained through the discovery process alone?

    And, I still have to lose the Administrative Hearing first. Unlike the court, a "fairness" argument is specifically allowed at these hearings. And, as I understand, the Parking Administrator is allowed to investigate whatever claims I might make, if they feel so inclined, before making their decision. Any advice on how to use this hearing? Remember the goal is not to get the $65 back, but to help bring get this problem fixed (on a budget). How do I get the Parking Administrator hearing officer interested in doing our investigating for us?

    Thank you, folks

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    You can ask the hearing officer to look into the other issues, but do not count on him or her acting on them. I am the Hearing Officer for my agency, and my authority in such matters is limited to the legal issues. In essence, I have to ascertain whether the allegation fits the definition of the code section cited, and whether there is sufficient cause to believe the violation occurred.

    Not having been at that level of administration in my time down there, I cannot say that the SD Hearing Officer has the same limited scope, but I seriously doubt that he is going to have the time, mandate, or inclination to look at a host of unrelated issues dealing with your perception of what is fair.

    If the area is properly marked, and the violation was properly cited for the appropriate section, then the violation will almost certainly be upheld at all levels. if you wish the enforcement to cease, that is a political decision. That will require more than simply a policy change, it will likely require the city council to retract the regulations or modify them in such a way that they could not be cited ... but, that might lend itself to a host of NEW problems that you just might object to.

    Enforcement is a political decision. Guilt or innocence is a legal one. You are almost certain to lose the legal one, but if you have enough political sway for the city to change the rules, you might prevail in he long run. Of course, if they stop enforcing parking there, you might find that backfiring as people from out of the area discover that they can freely park there, too. 'Tis the law of unintended consequences.

    And any government documents you want likely do not have to be sought through discovery OR subpoena - try utilizing the California Public Records Act and Government Code 6254(f). if the city holds the records you seek, they have to provide them or offer up an explanation why they will not or cannot. But, there is not likely any records to explain why one side of a street might have more parking cites than another ... all you might find is that more parking cites were issued on one side of the street than another, and unless a memo surfaces supporting a policy and practice of disparate treatment, that public relations argument may fall flat as well.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    You can ask the hearing officer [...] my authority in such matters is limited to the legal issues. [...] I seriously doubt that [a SD hearing officer] is going to have the time [to deal] with your perception of what is fair.
    Once again sir, thank you very much! This was our working assumption of what a Administrative Hearing officer's portfolio is.

    The Administrative Hearing round is a "free roll". and a required "place holder" to keep our $25 Superior Court option alive. We still have the option of mailing in a nominal response for 52 cents. Assuming the same four month delay in getting a ruling, as the Review Round took, and the additional 30 days to put up the $25, we would be looking at sometime in October. One of the other ways we are trying to do things differently this time is to be patient, and take things one step at a time. This problem has been going on for decades, it won't go away in a few months. I shouldn't be worrying about Superior Court this early in the game, I guess.

    Obviously, there is some type of quality feedback between the Parking Authority and the SDPD. For example, recently in the news, in New Orleans their Parking Authority excused something like 80k in citations for parking in the Neutral Grounds (medians) while at the same time the city (NOPD) announcing "zero tolerance" policy going forward. In manufacturing this is often called TQM (Total Quality Management).

    Would it be useful to go down and talk to the Hearing officer about these issues? The Parking Administration people I have talked to have all been very nice and reasonable. How about if I admit that I am keeping our options open about Superior Court, and say that I would just like to use my time to to talk about enforcement, and what both the Parking Authority, the SDPD, the neighborhood in general, and our block in particular, can do to make things better going forward? Or should we just spend the 52 cents and wait until October?

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    [...] if you wish the enforcement to cease
    I am new at this, so this is my mistake that I explained things inside-out. We don't want the enforcement to cease on our side of the street. I have only gotten two parking tickets in 23 years! We feel the enforcement on our side of the street is fair, consistent, and reasonable. We have always found our fine SDPD officers, both patrol and parking enforcement to be *the definition* of polite and professional.

    Our complaint is the other side of the steet, which is one of these "no enforce" zones. This leads to a never ending series of problems like our alley being blocked, private "impound" tows off the public r/w, and all sorts of fights and threats, because like you mentioned, at bottom it is a "free for all" over there. We are sick and tired of this state of affairs, and that is what we are trying to change.

    What we wish is that this particular "no enforcement" zone would just go away, and the same fair, consistent, and reasonable enforcement would be enjoyed on both sides of the street.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    I used to work down there and I do not recall any such delineation. An enforceable violation was an enforceable violation, there were no dual "enforce" and "no enforce" zones. Maybe the law has changed since I left 9 years ago - you wouldn't happen to have a muni code section for that, would you?
    As I mentioned in my first post, I can provide Google map links, CAVC and SDMC quotes, etc. And I am happy to do so. You, sir, having served in this rather peculiar neighborhood could give us quite a lot of insight into what is really going on here. When I mention these "no-enforcement" zones I do not in any way imply that you or your fellow officers were not doing their job. Nothing has changed.

    There are, however, about a dozen "zones" or pockets in Old Mission Beach, north of Santa Clara Place, where parking laws are simply not enforced. In particular, in certain "special" dead end alley segments east of Bayside Lane and west of Strandway. Does any of this ring a bell? "PM" me if you wish.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    And any government documents [...] - try utilizing the California Public Records Act and Government Code 6254(f). [...]
    Once again, and again... Thank you sir! We will look into this.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    Honestly, I never heard of any zones that were considered for non-enforcement. However, the SDPD did not regularly do parking enforcement unless as the direct result of complaints by neighbors or businesses - the Parking Enforcement personnel did most of them, not Patrol.

    I am afraid I can be of little help as to specific zones and what may or may not be happening aside from saying that I was never aware of any such "no enforce" zones, and am unaware of them even today ... though such things do not come up in conversation, and I seriously doubt that any such order would come down through the SDPD. Parking enforcement, well, they may operate under a different set of guidelines.

    Here is a link to the Admin Review:

    http://www.sandiego.gov/parking/cita...inreview.shtml

    While fairness is the benchmark, they are simply not going to be able to waive the violation because others have not been cited.

    About all you can likely do is bring light to the PERCEPTION by some in your neighborhood that there appears to be a lack of enforcement in the other neighborhood. Now, that may be true, but it may be for a number of reasons. If the enforcement is generated by complaints, perhaps there are not complaints over there. It might also be that when the enforcement is conducted, the violations are not observed. It is also possible that you and your neighbors simply have not seen the enforcement. Parking cites do not get printed in the local paper, so there is really no way to tell whether other neighborhoods are receiving equitable attention ... of course, there is no law that says they must receive equitable attention, either.

    Enforcement is a political decision. If you address the perception of impropriety, you may be able to obtain either some proof that your perceptions are in error, or, a promise to step up enforcement in those other neighborhoods. I seriously doubt that the Parking Enforcement folks, or the police, are going to admit to any intentional lack of enforcement as a result of influence peddling.

    A tally of parking cites might be available from the city upon request for whatever zones you ask for. I imagine they can give you totals for certain types of violations in the neighborhoods of your choosing. At least that will show "evidence" to support or refute your perceptions.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Selective Parking Enforcement in San Diego

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Honestly, I never heard of any zones that were considered for non-enforcement. [...] I was never aware of any such "no enforce" zones, and am unaware of them even today ... though such things do not come up in conversation [...]
    And I believe you, of course. Most patrol officers are not aware of these "zones". But quite a few are, our rough guess is maybe 25%. There would be no reason to hear about them, unless you happened to get called to an incident inside of one of them. Most of what we know about how these "zones" actually work is from frustrated patrol officers who have universally used phrases like "our hands are tied", or "we can't do anything over there".

    Recently, I was a bystander at an unrelated police activity in our alley. One of the responding patrol officers took a few minutes to come over and introduce himself. He remind me that he responded to a previous incident with our dirty "problem" letter waiving neighbor in the "zone" (not his words, of course). I said we are still working on it, currently with the City Councilman's Council Representative. He encouraged me to keep at it, and went back to work. Later, while they waited for "transportation" and I waited for my alley to be cleared, one of the other responding officers came over and chatted with me for a while. He had never noticed the "zone" before and was curious what the issues were.

    A frustrated patrol officer told us how to get our "letter waiving" neighbor to stop posting, then using, "Private Property Tow Away" signs in the public and improved city alley. Hint: It did not involve the police, and has worked quite well, thank you. Surprisingly we have been more or less asked to park over there, just so them can "do something", and were told to make sure to leave the car "over there", or else their "hands are tied" again! We haven't had so much success trying this one.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Parking enforcement, well, they may operate under a different set of guidelines. [...]
    I agree. We only just made our first contact with a Rank&File Parking Enforcement officer this weekend. Once again, another SDPD officer with excellent people skills (did I mention polite and professional?) Right now, we have no idea what goes on in this part or division (or whatever) of the PD. We do know for a fact, however, that Parking Enforcement management does instruct their officers to respect these "no enforcement zones". We have no idea if this instruction is written or oral.

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Here is a link to the Admin Review:
    http://www.sandiego.gov/parking/cita...inreview.shtml [...]
    Once again, thank you very much sir!

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    About all you can likely do is bring light to the PERCEPTION by some in your neighborhood that there appears to be a lack of enforcement in the other neighborhood. [...]
    Once again, I am new to this. I did not describe things very well, sorry. I meant literally across the very narrow side street, not across town in a different neighborhood. My alley segment is west of Bayside Lane, the "no-enforce" alley segment is east of Bayside Lane, separated by just 16 feet of bare cement.

    And we don't have a PERCEPTION of no enforcement here, we have several tons of metal sitting where they should not be sitting 24/365 for decades. If you check out Google Maps Street View for Bayside Lane north of Santa Clara Place looking east, Mission Blvd north of Whiting Court looking east, and Standway north of Santa Clara Place looking west you should see several cars parked in the dead end alley segments. Unless they are actively unloading people or cargo for less than 20 minutes they are parked in violation (SDMC 86.10.3). Most are directly blocking a garage or driveway which is always a violation, even if it is their own (CAVC). These parking laws are simply not enforced in these "no enforce zones", as our real estate agent friend correctly stated in the quote in my previous post.

    And, anyone who is lucky enough to find some of these "zones" unoccupied, who is willing roll the dice on being towed, and who can put up with the abuse and threats of the "letter waivers" can in fact park there too. Over the decades, several non "letter holders" have parked in the "zones" for days on end, breaking every parking rule in the book as well, and they have never received any citations either. While at the same time several rounds of citations were handed out just sixteen feet to the west, outside of the "no-enforce zone".

    And, frustrated patrol cops have explained that these "zones" are "unusual" and "not patrolled", or have otherwise made it clear what is going on. Our calls to dispatch have otherwise always been ignored, and have been for decades.

    And at this point ... I got to wonder if I have strayed way too off topic for this thread (or board, for that matter). Please excuse me if I did, and tell me to cut it out! Thank you, folks!

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