Results 1 to 9 of 9

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: TEXAS

    I was pulled over in Dallas, TX by a Highland Park, TX police officer for expired registration (it expired 7 days ago!) Yes, I realize that is my issue, but my question is if he has the jurisdiction to pull me over outside of Highland Park and issue me a citation. I was not in Highland Park at the time of him citing me for the violation. It says that i have to report to Highland Park Municipal Court.

    What's more, I was pulled over on one road, yet he wrote another road down for the violation! Not sure that it matters, but both roads are still in the city of Dallas and not Highland Park.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    My thought is that you may be mistaken as to the boundaries of Highland Park. If you're not, you can raise a venue issue as an offense that was committed in Dallas would belong in a Dallas court.

    I suggest consulting a local attorney.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    Definitely not mistaken as to the boundaries. The boundaries of Highland Park are pretty clear....the road I was on enters Highland Park about a mile up the road.

    I guess I could consult an attorney, but the ticket is $122. Would an attorney cost less?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    kshotter,

    File a motion to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction for their lack of holding an administrative hearing. The state has not exhausted all administrative remedies and by trying to drag you into a judicial court they are bypassing their own rules.

    Besides, here's a little tip on that highland park police officer. He gets his authority to operate and "regulate traffic" from the Department of Public Safety. The Department of Public Safety is an Agency according to Chapter 2001 of our state government code, meaning they are required to follow the Administrative Procedure Act (APA). Also, if you read Tx. Adm. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 29, Rules 29.1, 29.2, and 29.3 it shows that all contested cases over which the TxDPS has jurisdiction are subject to an administrative hearing, further proving that any traffic "tickets" are administrative in nature.

    Then if you read Texas Admin. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Rule 1.2, the mission of the TxDPS is to SUPERVISE traffic on the rural highways AND to SUPERVISE and REGULATE COMMERCIAL and “FOR HIRE” traffic.

    Rule 1.2 says that the authority to REGULATE is specifically limited to those engaged in COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES upon the highways.

    Pursuant Texas Admin. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Rule 1.3, the ADMINISTRATIVE and REGULATORY functions of the TxDPS under Rule 1.3(b)(1) and (b)(2) includes DRIVER’S LICENSEs, VEHICLE INSPECTION and other “Traffic” law related authorities.

    NOWHERE is the authority to regulate COMMERCIAL activities EVER expanded beyond its original scope and application to include the People and their NON-COMMERCIAL activities

    THEREFORE, if you were not "driving" for a commercial activity, meaning you were just going from your house to the grocery store, or to work, or whatever, that ticket doesn't apply to you. In accordance with their own rules, they can ONLY regulate commercial traffic, meaning things like taxi drivers, limo drivers, truck drivers... stuff like that. If that's not you, then tell them to shove it.

    Yes an attorney will cost less. That's your choice.

    But I'd file for dismissal for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.
    Learn the laws and learn that most of this stuff doesn't even apply to the normal common men and women. Don't believe me, look it up.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    What a bunch of CRAP! OP, if you follow that advice and "tell them to shove it", at best, you'll give the judge a good laugh before finding you guilty. At worst, you'll be found in contempt of court.

    "Redbeard" conveniently loves to quote only PART of the code. Here is the ENTIRE administrative code he/she was referring to:

    Quote Quoting TITLE 37, PART 1, CHAPTER 1, SUBCHAPTER A, RULE §1.2
    Mission
    The mission of the Texas Department of Public Safety is:

    (1) to supervise traffic on rural highways;
    (2) to supervise and regulate commercial and "for hire" traffic;
    (3) to preserve the peace, to investigate crimes, and to arrest criminals;
    (4) to administer regulatory programs in driver licensing, motor vehicle inspection, and safety responsibility; and
    (5) to execute programs supplementing and supporting the preceding activities.

    First of all, this is an "administrative code" -- not the actual statutes. Administrative Codes discuss HOW statutes are to be implemented or enforced -- it does NOT define the statutes. Second, this is a MISSION STATEMENT -- NOT a statement of regulatory authority. Even so, NOTHING in that Mission Statement RESTRICTS the DPS's authority to "commercial" traffic alone. It simply INCLUDES it as a responsibility -- in addition to others. In fact, if you read a little further, you'll find this:

    Quote Quoting TITLE 37, PART 1, CHAPTER 3, SUBCHAPTER B, RULE §3.21
    Requirement To Take Action
    (a) General. Department of public safety traffic law enforcement officers, so far as practicable under the circumstances, will stop every violator of the traffic laws observed by them and take appropriate enforcement action against them.

    "...every violator of the traffic laws" does NOT seem to be restricted to "commercial" use vehicles only, at least the way I read it.

    I will readily admit that I'm not all that familiar with TX law (or really ANY state outside of WA), but, IMHO, Redbeard's argument is CRAP!

    Redbeard, you should follow your own advice and "Learn the laws...."

    Barry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    blewis,

    I recommend you research your own state's administrative procedure as well, for I've been told Washington State runs basically the same as Texas as far as exhaustion of administrative remedies and traffic citations is concerned.

    As to your response, I can't blame you for thinking I'm way off base, because it's not widely known, nor looked at. It's because I've read, reread, and discussed with MANY people the specific language, statutes, case law, constitutions, etc that I use this approach. If you read all the relevant Transportation Code, as well as Administrative Code, SCOTx case law, etc. you will learn that I'm correct. And unless I've missed some major concept, Government Code IS the Statutes and Rules, it's the same thing, hence you can find the statutes and rules CODIFIED. Rules, by the way, as defined here:
    Texas Government Code Chapter 2001
    � 2001.003. Definitions
    (6) "Rule":
    (A) means a state agency statement of general applicability that:
    (i) implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy; or
    (ii) describes the procedure or practice requirements of a state agency;
    (B) includes the amendment or repeal of a prior rule; and
    (C) does not include a statement regarding only the internal management or organization of a state agency and not affecting private rights or procedures.


    The Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) is an AGENCY and as such is REQUIRED to follow the Administrative Procedure Act (APA), Texas Gov Code Chapter 2001. If you'd like the entire breakdown of how it works, I can provide that for you, however, please take into account this is how TEXAS works, other states may be different, but I understand California and Washington are about the same, as well as a bunch of others.

    All traffic offenses, other than those specifically excluded by Texas Adm. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 29, Rule 1.2, are subject to a requisite ADMINISTRATIVE hearing and not a JUDICIAL trial.

    For just a small example of the fact that the APA governs DPS (as well as all agencies) and it's actions, see the following:

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/public_...utes052604.pdf

    In reference to passing new rules
    "The new sections are adopted pursuant to Texas Government Code, Section 411.004(3), which authorizes the Public Safety Commission to adopt rules considered necessary for carrying out the department’s work and Texas Transportation Code, Chapter 601.
    This agency hereby certifies that the adoption has been reviewed by legal counsel and found to be a valid exercise of the agency’s legal authority.
    The effective date of the rules is 20 days after the rules are filed with the Texas Register Division, Office of the Secretary of State.
    This order constitutes the order of the Commission required by the Administrative Procedures Act, Government Code, Section 2001.033."

    There are NUMEROUS ways to show that the DPS is required to follow APA and hold administrative hearings for contested cases. I'll stop there for now, but just do a little bit of research before you decide it's "a bunch of CRAP!"

    One other easy way to show APA governs is the Administrative License Revocation (ALR) which is the effect of holding an administrative hearing (in accordance with APA Chapter 2001) for people who get DUI's.

    See, this is a VERY simple attempt at explaining this, but here goes...
    DPS is an agency. As an agency, they are given control over their own stuff, but they are required to follow certain rules governing agencies. That's what our state legislature says. They are part of the executive branch, allowed to write their own rules with the force of law. The legislature said, ok, if you're going to write your own rules, and enforce them, you have to adjudicate them as well. Hence, they created the administrative hearing process. It's held in front of an administrative law judge. This all happens within the executive branch. It's a way to keep these issues out of the judicial branch courts and keep our court system from being overburdened with executive branch problems. It's like the legislature said, ok, you can write the rules about transportation and enforce them, but you’re going to have to hold the hearings over any disputed issues as well. You do your thing, and if anyone of our citizens of this state feels their rights are hindered by your "rule", you gotta hear the case. If they don't like the outcome of that case, they ALWAYS have the fall back of appealing it to a TRUE Judicial court. And there, they can determine if your “rule” actually follows constitutional restrictions, Supreme Court Case Law, etc.

    That's the super simple explanation of it all. Here's some proof to back it up (though I'm sure I could find more):

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...11.htm#411.002
    § 411.002. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF
    TEXAS. (a) The Department of Public Safety of the State of Texas is
    an agency
    of the state to enforce the laws protecting the public
    safety and provide for the prevention and detection of crime.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/txcodes/go200100.html
    � 2001.003. Definitions
    In this chapter:
    (7) "State agency" means a state officer, board, commission, or department with statewide jurisdiction that makes rules or determines contested cases. The term includes the State Office of Administrative Hearings for the purpose of determining contested cases. The term does not include:
    (A) a state agency wholly financed by federal money;
    (B) the legislature;
    (C) the courts;
    (D) the Texas Workers' Compensation Commission; or
    (E) an institution of higher education.

    http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=37&pt=1&ch=29&rl =Y
    Texas Administrative Code, Title 37 Public Safety and Corrections, Part 1 Texas Department of Public Safety, Chapter 29 Practice and Procedure. This entire chapter is how to do an administrative hearing!



    In regards to kshotter's "citation" of vehicle registration, that is covered here:

    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/TN.502.htm
    § 502.401. GENERAL PENALTY. (a) A person commits an
    offense if the person violates a provision of this chapter and no
    other penalty is prescribed for the violation.
    (b) This section does not apply to a violation of Section
    502.003, 502.101, 502.109, 502.112, 502.113, 502.114, 502.152,
    502.164, or 502.282.
    (c) An offense under this section is a misdemeanor
    punishable by a fine not to exceed $200.


    and as such this applies:
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/PE.12.htm
    § 12.23. CLASS C MISDEMEANOR. An individual adjudged
    guilty of a Class C misdemeanor shall be punished by a fine not to
    exceed $500.

    By the way, the ONLY definition of CRIME in ALL of Texas code is here:
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u....71.htm#71.001

    Sec. 71.001. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
    (1) "Assigned counsel program" means a system under which private attorneys, acting as independent contractors and compensated with public funds, are individually appointed to provide legal representation and services to a particular indigent defendant accused of a crime or juvenile offense.
    (2) "Chair" means the chair of the council.
    (3) "Contract defender program" means a system under which private attorneys, acting as independent contractors and compensated with public funds, are engaged to provide legal representation and services to a group of unspecified indigent defendants who appear before a particular court or group of courts.
    (4) "Council" means the Texas Judicial Council.
    (5) "Crime" means:
    (A) a misdemeanor punishable by confinement; or
    (B) a felony.


    Therefore, if the misdemeanor is punishable by fine only, it cannot be a crime. So, since the only thing left is for it to be Civil, why would you go to a criminal court? Or is traffic court civil court?

    I won't say I know all the answers, but I will state that I have a hell of a lot better grasp of my state's laws, statutes, constitution, etc, than most people. And I know how to tell them to SHOVE IT!

    Redbeard

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Yucaipa,Ca (so.ca)
    Posts
    35

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    Quote Quoting Redbeard
    View Post
    kshotter,

    File a motion to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction for their lack of holding an administrative hearing. The state has not exhausted all administrative remedies and by trying to drag you into a judicial court they are bypassing their own rules.

    Besides, here's a little tip on that highland park police officer. He gets his authority to operate and "regulate traffic" from the Department of Public Safety. The Department of Public Safety is an Agency according to Chapter 2001 of our state government code, meaning they are required to follow the Administrative Procedure Act (APA). Also, if you read Tx. Adm. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 29, Rules 29.1, 29.2, and 29.3 it shows that all contested cases over which the TxDPS has jurisdiction are subject to an administrative hearing, further proving that any traffic "tickets" are administrative in nature.

    Then if you read Texas Admin. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Rule 1.2, the mission of the TxDPS is to SUPERVISE traffic on the rural highways AND to SUPERVISE and REGULATE COMMERCIAL and “FOR HIRE” traffic.

    Rule 1.2 says that the authority to REGULATE is specifically limited to those engaged in COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES upon the highways.

    Pursuant Texas Admin. Code Title 37, Part 1, Chapter 1, Subchapter A, Rule 1.3, the ADMINISTRATIVE and REGULATORY functions of the TxDPS under Rule 1.3(b)(1) and (b)(2) includes DRIVER’S LICENSEs, VEHICLE INSPECTION and other “Traffic” law related authorities.

    NOWHERE is the authority to regulate COMMERCIAL activities EVER expanded beyond its original scope and application to include the People and their NON-COMMERCIAL activities

    THEREFORE, if you were not "driving" for a commercial activity, meaning you were just going from your house to the grocery store, or to work, or whatever, that ticket doesn't apply to you. In accordance with their own rules, they can ONLY regulate commercial traffic, meaning things like taxi drivers, limo drivers, truck drivers... stuff like that. If that's not you, then tell them to shove it.

    Yes an attorney will cost less. That's your choice.

    But I'd file for dismissal for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.
    Learn the laws and learn that most of this stuff doesn't even apply to the normal common men and women. Don't believe me, look it up.
    Its called the right to travel & you're correct.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    And, when that argument fails, he will still have to pay his registration. Best to go into court with the registration paid up and hope the court decides to drop the matter so as to avoid any additional penalties.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Expired Registration Ticket Given by Officer from Another City

    Quote Quoting kshotter
    View Post
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: TEXAS

    I was pulled over in Dallas, TX by a Highland Park, TX police officer for expired registration (it expired 7 days ago!) Yes, I realize that is my issue, but my question is if he has the jurisdiction to pull me over outside of Highland Park and issue me a citation. I was not in Highland Park at the time of him citing me for the violation. It says that i have to report to Highland Park Municipal Court.

    What's more, I was pulled over on one road, yet he wrote another road down for the violation! Not sure that it matters, but both roads are still in the city of Dallas and not Highland Park.

    Thoughts?
    At any time, had you traveled on a road within the officer's jurisdictions in the minutes leading up to the stop? if so, and the location on the cite reflects where you had been traveling, jurisdiction will not be an issue as it is the location of the violation that grants jurisdiction, not so much the location of the detention.

    if you wish to challenge jurisdiction, you are free to argue it in traffic court or pay an attorney a lot of money to do it for you.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Defective Equipment: Expired Registration Fix-It Ticket for a Car That's Not Yours, and Failure to Appear
    By Janito in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-12-2011, 03:19 PM
  2. Parking Violations: Ticket for Expired Registration: Registration Sticker Not Yet Received
    By LibDem59 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-12-2010, 10:32 AM
  3. Defective Equipment: Fix It Ticket, Expired Registration
    By maxp4 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-19-2009, 11:34 PM
  4. Ticket For Expired PA Registration
    By wendeb in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-11-2008, 08:14 PM
  5. Speeding Tickets: Speeding and Expired Registration, But Ticket Says Registration Is Valid
    By TX Ciclista in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-26-2007, 03:08 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources