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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Unhappy Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow

    My question involves a traffic ticket ffrom the state of CA.

    I was driving through a major intersection In Emeryville, CA. There are 4 lanes of traffic, the number 3 and 4 lanes go straight through the intersection (with photo cameras), the number 1 and 2 lanes are left turn only lanes, with a red arrow signal and solid white lines.

    There was city construction in the number 4 (rightmost lane) and it was coned off. It was coned off for about half the distance of that block. As a result, traffic shifted over one lane, and traffic in the number 2 lane (with a white line and left turn arrow) was going straight through the intersection.

    As I approached the intersection, I was travelling 32 mph, in the number 2 lane, with the flow of traffic. The left arrow was red, but I was heading straight and went through the intersection on the green light. I felt it was dangerous for me to stop at the time, and there was a car next to me in the number 3 lane, so it was impossible for me to change lanes. This is all in the video.

    I feel that I had to continue through the intersection out of necessity. l want to fight this because I never made a turn, and also the fine is very steep. I do qualify for traffic school, but feel this is unwarranted. Is this worth fighting?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Quote Quoting Emyville
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    My question involves a traffic ticket ffrom the state of CA.

    I was driving through a major intersection In Emeryville, CA. There are 4 lanes of traffic, the number 3 and 4 lanes go straight through the intersection (with photo cameras), the number 1 and 2 lanes are left turn only lanes, with a red arrow signal and solid white lines.

    There was city construction in the number 4 (rightmost lane) and it was coned off. It was coned off for about half the distance of that block. As a result, traffic shifted over one lane, and traffic in the number 2 lane (with a white line and left turn arrow) was going straight through the intersection.

    As I approached the intersection, I was travelling 32 mph, in the number 2 lane, with the flow of traffic. The left arrow was red, but I was heading straight and went through the intersection on the green light. I felt it was dangerous for me to stop at the time, and there was a car next to me in the number 3 lane, so it was impossible for me to change lanes. This is all in the video.

    I feel that I had to continue through the intersection out of necessity. l want to fight this because I never made a turn, and also the fine is very steep. I do qualify for traffic school, but feel this is unwarranted. Is this worth fighting?
    What Vehicle Code section were you cited for?

    And did the left turn lane have signs or pavement markings that indicated "Left Turn" or "Left Turn Only"? Point I'm getting at is what gave you the impression that "traffic shifted over one lane"? Were those signs covered somehow? Did the road crew have cones/signs set up in some way to make that shift or did you just assume that the lanes shifted?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Hello. I was cited for CA Vehicle Code 21453C which is I believe, failure to stop at a red light. The left turn lanes had white turning arrows and solid white lines, which I believe means left turn only.

    The number 4 lane was completely coned off, and you could see traffic flow to the left, and the number 2 and 3 lanes were used to drive straight through the intersection. I didn't see ANY cars in my lane (the 2 lane) turn, and all went straight through. In fact, in my video, you can see a car in front of me do that, and the flash of the camera, right before I follow through. Following someone else is not my defense, but I just wanted to point out that the traffic had shifted over and used the number 2 lane to go straight ahead. The entire flow of traffic was at 30 mph, and as I mentioned, there was a car accelerating in lane 3, so I couldn't change lanes, and at that speed I didn't feel safe to stop.

    I don't recall the signage.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Quote Quoting Emyville
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    Hello. I was cited for CA Vehicle Code 21453C which is I believe, failure to stop at a red light. The left turn lanes had white turning arrows and solid white lines, which I believe means left turn only.

    The number 4 lane was completely coned off, and you could see traffic flow to the left, and the number 2 and 3 lanes were used to drive straight through the intersection. I didn't see ANY cars in my lane (the 2 lane) turn, and all went straight through. In fact, in my video, you can see a car in front of me do that, and the flash of the camera, right before I follow through. Following someone else is not my defense, but I just wanted to point out that the traffic had shifted over and used the number 2 lane to go straight ahead. The entire flow of traffic was at 30 mph, and as I mentioned, there was a car accelerating in lane 3, so I couldn't change lanes, and at that speed I didn't feel safe to stop.

    I don't recall the signage.
    Sounds to me like you decided that you could go straight through the left turn lane which is not only restricted as a "left turn" only lane (which means you should have slowed down as you prepared to turn left) but it was also regulated by a left turn arrow which means you should have stopped.

    Also, just because someone else went straight through a left turn red light does not make it legal. Chances are, the other driver received a similar citation to the one you have.

    Sorry, but based on what you posted, I don't see you having any way out of this one... Except for opting to take traffic school (assuming you're eligible) to avoid a possible increase in your insurance premium.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Hmmm. I have to disagree, Sir That Guy. The way I understand it, the left arrow lights were red, but the straight through lights were green. However, CVC 21453 (c) states:

    Quote Quoting CVC 21453
    (c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.

    Now, maybe I'm reading that wrong, but it sounds like OP WAS entering the intersection "to make a movement permitted by another signal". Or maybe I just don't fully understand that provision of the law.

    Now, IMHO, if there had been a "left turn only" sign for that lane, he COULD have been charged with improper lane usage or failure to obey a traffic control device, but that's NOT the case. I'd say fight it -- the way I read it, you've got the law on your side. What do you think TG?

    Barry

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Quote Quoting blewis
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    Hmmm. I have to disagree, Sir That Guy.
    St. Barry ,

    This feels like Deja Vu... Not because we often disagree; but only because we have had a similar discussion. Unfortunately the OP in that thread never returned with an update as to whether the argument you presented therein did work or not.

    Having said that, and although I will not outright discredit the argument you presented here, I will disagree based on my belief and understanding that the signal (the green circular light) is NOT permitting another movement (straight through the intersection) for a driver in the left lane. That driver and by virtue of his presence in a lane that is marked with a left arrow (painted on the pavement), has committed to a left turn that is controlled by the red arrow light. And therefore his traversing forward and straight through the intersection from a lane that forbids such movement is in violation of CVC 21461.a - Disobeying a traffic control sign ("sign" is defined in CVC 440 to include "marking" -as in pavement marking (i.e. the painted left turn arrow)).

    Yes, I do realize that the OP was not cited for 21461(a). I am presenting that as the basis for the next point, which goes as follows:

    Since we have established that the only movement allowed from that lane is, in fact, a “Left Turn” movement, and since such a movement is restricted by a Traffic Control Signal -as defined in CVC 445 (i.e. the RED light) which at the time that the OP crossed the limit line from that lane, that signal was in the RED phase, crossing over and past the limit line, is in fact in violation of 21453(c) -crossing the limit line while the left turn arrow is RED.

    So in essence, the OP was -in my opinion- in violation of TWO CVC sections: 21461(a) (for violating the painted arrow) AND 21453(c) (for violating the RED Left Turn Arrow from a restricted left turn lane). Although he/she was only cited for one of the two (see? there's always an upside ).

    As for the “unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal” portion, it does not apply here nor does it permit a straight through movement from a lane where that movement is prohibited. One could NOT argue that the straight through movement from the left turn lane was, at the time, permitted by the green circular light due to the fact such a movement is always prohibited by virtue of the pavement marking (i.e. the left turn arrow on the pavement).

    Here are the relevant CVC sections I cited above:
    CVC 21461.(a) It is unlawful for a driver of a vehicle to fail to obey a sign or signal defined as regulatory in the federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or a Department of Transportation approved supplement to that manual of a regulatory nature erected or maintained to enhance traffic safety and operations or to indicate and carry out the provisions of this code or a local traffic ordinance or resolution adopted pursuant to a local traffic ordinance, or to fail to obey a device erected or maintained by lawful authority of a public body or official.

    CVC 440. An "official traffic control device" is any sign, signal, marking, or device, consistent with Section 21400, placed or erected by authority of a public body or official having jurisdiction, for the purpose of regulating, warning, or guiding traffic but does not include islands, curbs, traffic barriers, speed humps, speed bumps, or other roadway design features.

    CVC 445. An "official traffic control signal" is any device, whether manually, electrically or mechanically operated, by which traffic is alternately directed to stop and proceed and which is erected by authority of a public body or official having jurisdiction.

    CVC 21400. The Department of Transportation shall, after consultation with local agencies and public hearings, adopt rules and regulations prescribing uniform standards and specifications for all official traffic control devices placed pursuant to this code, including, but not limited to, stop signs, yield right-of-way signs, speed restriction signs, railroad warning approach signs, street name signs, lines and markings on the roadway, and stock crossing signs placed pursuant to Section 21364.
    The Department of Transportation shall, after notice and public hearing, determine and publicize the specifications for uniform types of warning signs, lights, and devices to be placed upon a highway by any person engaged in performing work which interferes with or endangers the safe movement of traffic upon that highway.
    Only those signs, lights, and devices as are provided for in this section shall be placed upon a highway to warn traffic of work which is being performed on the highway.
    Any control devices or markings installed upon traffic barriers on or after January 1, 1984, shall conform to the uniform standards and specifications required by this section.


    To simplify it all, the OP crossed the left turn limit line while the arrow light was in its RED phase regardless of whether there was another signal allowing another movement through the intersection.

    Also keep in mind that the OP has no idea whether a "Left Turn Only" sign is posted for that lane (not that one is needed -as i do believe that the painted arrow should be sufficient to regulate the movement from that left Turn lane)... He/she "does not recall the signage".

  7. #7
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    Mar 2010
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Gentlemen, than you for your thoughtful and detailed answers.

    I just have a couple of quick questions. Because half of the distance between the construction and the intersection was coned off, it essentially forced you into the left turn only lane to go with the flow of traffic. Of course, one could always come to a full stop from 30mph to avoid this, but that felt unsafe to me. Could I not make some type of "necessity" defense, that I couldn't merge to the tight lane due to traffic, and I couldn't stop short in such a small space?

    Also, I just wonder about the legality of making a photo infraction into a moving violation. Many states that I am familiar with don't do that. Does the Motor Vehicle Code not require an Officer to be present at the alleged violation in order to write a Citation? It seems wrong to me to have someone looking at a brief video, with no knowledge of the events leading up to it, to do that.

    I have heard more than 20 other people received the same ticket as I did during this construction period (I spoke to the town Public Works Dept). It was suggested that I plead my case directly with the PD.

    Any thoughts? And please, don't come up with any new infractions for me

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    One quick question for you -- in the video, does it show ALL other cars in your lane going straight? The reason I ask is because you say it would have been dangerous to stop, but what if the guy in front of you HAD been turning left. He would certainly have stopped, since he had a right left turn arrow. I guess I'm saying that your argument won't hold water. I think you ought to stick with the "legal" argument -- that you did, indeed, enter the intersection to make a movement allowed by one of the other signals.

    Barry

    p.s. Oh, and if you do try to plead your case to the PD, you do, indeed, risk having the violation changed to one of the others we've mentioned.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    4

    Default Re: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow California

    Just thought you might like to know the outcome. I called the Emeryville
    Public Works Dept to get proof of the construction for my day in court.
    The gentleman there told me that he had recently fielded more than 20
    such calls and referred me to the traffic Sgt to request dismissal. I called
    them and asked them to review the video.

    After about 7 days and a few calls they kindly dismissed the violation.

    Many thanks to the folks here and who encouraged me to pursue dismissal with the local PD.

    It does make you wonder how many people received this ticket and
    just bit the bullet, paid more than $500 and took the hit to their
    driving record and insurance. It truly is highway robbery. I hope we
    get a chance to vote out these automated ticket issuing machines
    like they will in Arizona soon ...

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