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  1. #1

    Default School Zone Sign Not So Obvious

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Ohio

    My contention here is that, given the simultaneous Y split, curving road, and the sign being on the other side of the road, it would not be possible for a driver who was being mindful of traffic and paying attention to where he was going to see this sign, even though it would be in plain sight to someone driving in the other lane.

    I was clocked with a laser for 44 in a 20. 44 in a 35 is normal driving for me, and I would just consider it a gamble that I lost if I got a ticket for this. I'm frustrated because I really didn't know I was in a school zone.

    Would offering that as a defense just piss-off the judge? I have not had a ticket in 12 years.

    ---FULL DETAILS---
    Got pulled over this morning. This is an unusual route for me and an unusual time. I don't normally go to work until about 9AM. I used to be a school teacher, so I am always mindful of school zone speed limits.

    Was waiting at a red light at a busy intersection. This is a four lane split road, with two lanes on each side of some light rail tracks. Was in the left hand lane. Immediately after you pass through the intersection the road simultaneously splits into a Y while the main, two lane road continues to the left around a curve. As I passed through the intersection I was in the left hand lane and was focused on negotiating the turn after the intersection.

    Just after the Y but before the turn is complete, is posted the school zone sign, on the RHS of the road. I had never seen this sign prior to getting pulled over this morning. After being pulled over I looped back and went through the intersection again, this time in the right hand lane, looking for the sign, and sure enough, there it was. The lights were off, but I don't think that matters. Again, this is not my usual route.

    Anyway, just past the curve after the intersection I changed lanes to overtake slower moving traffic. I Saw a stopped car ahead and began braking. I then saw the officer's car parked in a driveway. I slowed further, understanding why traffic was slowing down. He pulled me over with siren and lights when I passed. Then I looked to the right and realized I was in front of a school.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: School Zone Sign Not So Obvious

    You can check the MUTCD to see if the sign is properly placed.

  3. #3

    Default Re: School Zone Sign Not So Obvious

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    You can check the MUTCD to see if the sign is properly placed.
    Thanks Knowitall. Turns out they should have been using an overhead sign according to this document. Any suggestions on how I ought to present this to the judge?

  4. #4

    Default Re: School Zone Sign Not So Obvious

    Thank you so much. Here's what I found in the MUTCD:
    7B.11 Guidance:
    Overhead mounting should be used on all divided and four-lane highways.
    This road is both divided and four-lane. I was initially concerned about the word 'highway', but I found this is the definitions section:
    Highway (or Street)—the entire width between the boundary lines of every way open to the
    use of the public as a thoroughfare for purposes of vehicular travel. [4511.01(BB), O.R.C.]
    But I still have a couple more questions:

    1. Do I need to make a video driving through this area to show the absence of overhead signs? I.e. do I need to offer proof of the current placement?
    2. Is misplacement of the sign likely to win the case or do I still need to prove that the existing signs are insufficient/difficult to read? If so, should I request that they provide some type of engineering study related to sign placement?
    3. Finally, I assume I should enter a not-guilty plea, right?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    3,577

    Default Re: School Zone Sign Not So Obvious

    "Guidance" means just that -- guidance. That does NOT mean "requirement". You might want to check your state laws where they "adopt" the MUTCD. For example, in WA, WAC 468-95-330 states:

    Quote Quoting WAC 468-95-330
    Pursuant to RCW 46.61.440, the first Guidance in MUTCD Section 7B.11 is replaced with a Standard to read....

    In this case WA state changed the MUTCD "guidance" for the speed limit sign assembly to a "standard" applicable to our state alone. So, if you can find an Ohio law that does a similar thing with the overhead signs, I think you'd stand a better chance.

    I'd certainly make the argument, however, if it were me.

    Barry

  6. #6

    Default Re: School Zone Sign Not So Obvious

    Quote Quoting blewis
    View Post
    "Guidance" means just that -- guidance. That does NOT mean "requirement". You might want to check your state laws where they "adopt" the MUTCD. [...] I'd certainly make the argument, however, if it were me.

    Barry
    Thanks Barry. FYI, the manual I'm looking at is the Ohio version of the MUTCD, so I would assume this is the final word for Ohio.

    I also looked up the word guidance:

    Guidance—a statement of recommended, but not mandatory, practice in typical situations, with deviations allowed if engineering judgment or engineering study indicates the deviation to be appropriate. All Guidance statements are labeled, and the text appears in unbold type. The verb “should” is typically used. Guidance statements are sometimes modified by Options.
    The wording suggests to me that they ought to have some documentation supporting their decision not to follow the 'Guidance' or am I just reading too much into it?

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