Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23
  1. #1

    Default Record Sealing in Washington State

    My question involves expungements or pardons for the state of: Washington Several month ago I petitioned a King County Superior Court judge to have my 1989 conviction for a gross misdemeanor vacated and the court record sealed. The judge agreed to vacate but turned down my request to seal the court record. When I first contracted the services of my attorney, in April 2008, I was led to believe that getting the court file sealed would be almost a sure thing, but then, in early 2009, they informed me that the "rules" had changed, that now there were the "Ishikawa Factors", which judges have to weigh against "GR-15", in order to seal a court file. The judge ultimately ruled that there was not enough "compelling reason" to seal my file, which would have to outweigh the public's right to inspect a criminal court record. After the heaing, my attorney told me that I could still get my file sealed, but to do so I would have to supply "compelling evidence", which, he said, would best take the form of a "rejection notice" from a prospective employer to whom I had applied for a job, in the form of a letter or e-mail, stating that I had been turned down for the position specifically because of my accessible criminal record. In Washington State, if you have your conviction vacated it will no longer appear on the Washington State Patrol's website, but unless you have your court file sealed it will still be accessible, on the Washington Courts website and at the courthouse itself. From what I have gathered, it was relatively easy several years ago to get your file sealed once your conviction was vacated in Washington, but the recent rule changes have now made it more difficult. So, extremely disappointed but still hopeful, I found myself in the odd position of applying for jobs not really wanting to be hired but instead be turned down because of my still accessible criminal record, and explicitly told so in an e-mail. So far I have been "accepted" for some jobs, turned down for others, but no one has yet given me that magic "rejection notice" I need. My gut feeling is that this will not be easy. And yet, paradoxically, I read stories from people who have a similar situation and get turned down for jobs repeatedly, and are told that their criminal record is in fact the reason why. I cannot be the only person in Washington State with this problem, if any of you are reading this I would welcome any advice and insight, even perhaps some suggestions about employers who are "known" to turn down applicants with criminal records, especially those that have had the conviction vacated, and explicitly say so in a letter or e-mail. Please send me a personal message if you have such a suggestion. Thanks.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    To add more, there was a case. referred to as the Karen R. Walden case, now, for some reason, simply called the KRW case, which caused an appeal by the court of appeals, resulting in the record sealing process becoming much more difficult. I was told that this ruling, which mandates that the "Ishikawa Factors" be considered by a judge before sealing a criminal court file, might itself still be overruled by the State Supreme Court. Does anyone have any inside information on what might be happening in this regard?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    I am in the exact same situation as you and am now in the position of requesting rejection letters and/or applying to positions that may possibly reject me. I cannot tell you how great it is to know I am not alone in this catch 22.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    Quote Quoting seagurl
    View Post
    I am in the exact same situation as you and am now in the position of requesting rejection letters and/or applying to positions that may possibly reject me. I cannot tell you how great it is to know I am not alone in this catch 22.
    Thanks for your response. I was hoping that sooner or later SOMEBODY in this predicament would read my post. I'm glad we have "found" each other, I too was feeling very lonely, confused and depressed about it. This has got to be one the strangest situations imaginable, applying for jobs hoping you get turned down, and that they turn you down because they found your vacated-but-not-sealed criminal record in a background search, and are "kind" enough to tell you so! The whole thing is ironic almost beyond belief. This gives a whole new meaning to the expression "jumping through hoops". So now there are at least two of us, but if we're going to figure this thing out we're going to need more help. I'm not even sure if this forum is the best place to get an answer to this problem. Some of the posts I see on this suject tell me that some folks think that "vacating" and "sealing" mean the same thing. THEY DO NOT, at least not in the state of Washington! I can tell you a few things I have learned. You have to apply at companies that are large enough that they contract with a background search company to do searches on a regular basis. If they interview you and are interested, they will ask you to give them written permission to do a background search. If they find your record, and reject you because of it (and they might not, they might actually accept you!), they are required by law to tell you so and you have the right to inspect the "consumer report" in case the information is incorrect, so you can dispute it. Another BIG problem is that background searches are not all the same. Your old record might show up on some but not on others. Now, how in the world could THAT be? For example, my 1989 misdemeanor conviction, vacated in 2009, shows up on Intelius, supposedly one of the most widely used and accurate companies, and in my case, I would have to agree that they are accurate. But I have read many reports claiming Intelius is a big ripoff and that they report false information. Go figure. ChoicePoint, on the other hand, has NO RECORD FOUND for me, and they apparently are THE most widely used company of all! HUHHH???? Then, there is this subject of how far back a background search company "can" go, versus "allowed" to go. A company called Background Ferret states that it can go back no further than ten years in Washington state, according to "state law". However, Intelius had NO such problem with any "state law", reporting my TWENTY year old conviction! So, it would appear that the "state law" does not apply equally to all background search companies! And to make it all even more complicated, how can you know which employers use which background search companies? Well, you can try Googling that question, and you can get some answers from various discussion forums where that subject comes up. In my case, I know at least that Intelius has my old record, because I did my OWN background search, so now "all" I have to do is find companies that I "know" use Intelius! You would think that attorneys who are in the business of doing expungements, vacating and sealing records would know ALL ABOUT these things, and perhaps they do, but I don't know how eager they are to share such information with people who desperately need it. And, not surprisingly, I have gotten different responses about the subect of record sealing in Washington state from EVERY attorney I've contacted! So you end up not even knowing who to believe, and I get the feeling it's all a game with them. The one thing I do know is this: there are people who have gotten their records sealed, and they could lend some help here, if they would only step forward.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    240

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    I have a question if the court vacates your conviction can you answer no on a job application to the question have you ever been convicted of a crime??

  6. #6

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    Quote Quoting equality
    View Post
    I have a question if the court vacates your conviction can you answer no on a job application to the question have you ever been convicted of a crime??
    That is an excellent question. However, the answer is not as clear cut as you might expect. According to Washington state law, you can answer "no" to that question if you have had your conviction vacated. Sounds good, doesn't it? Well, unfortunately, there's a bit more to it. The vacate statute was enacted BEFORE the advent of the internet and the explosion of "background searches" that were only made possible by the internet. Before the internet, there was no such thing as a "background search", the way that term is now used. The Washington State Patrol was, and continues to be, the official "depository" for criminal records in the state of Washington. When you have your conviction vacated, your name and record are removed from the WSP's public database. That means that if someone queries the WSP about you, the answer will be "no record found". That does not mean that the record no longer exists, it simply means that the WSP is no longer allowed to tell them about it. However, and this is EXTREMELY important to understand, modern internet background searches do not, I repeat, DO NOT get their information from the WSP website. They bypass the WSP site and go instead to the Washington Courts website. Now, if the WSP is the official depository for criminal information in Washington state, then WHY don't background searches go there for their information? For a very simple and logical reason. After lots of people started getting their convictions vacated and removed from the WSP database, some really bright individual figured out that the WSP was NOT the place to go if you wanted the REAL TRUTH! You go instead to the Washngton Courts website, where all the original court records can be found. Vacating a conviction does not, of and by itself, seal or expunge the original court record. That requires a TOTALLY different, separate, and far more DIFFICULT action than simply vacating a conviction. The bottom line is simply this: the vacate statute has not kept up with the times, with the "internet age". And this has presented lawmakers with some very difficult questions. If anyone can access criminal court records even when the conviction has been vacated, then what actual good is achieved by vacating a conviction? If the intent is to conceal the conviction from the public, the answer can only be, not much, if any. Yes, you can say that you were "never" convicted. But if the prospective employer does a background search that uncovers the court record and original conviction, what would you expect them to think? Would you expect them to tell you "I know that you were actually convicted, but since you had it vacated I realize that the conviction was reversed, so therefore I'm going to hire you"? If you believe that, I've got some real estate in the Florida Everglades I'd like to sell you. The ONLY way to make the vacate statute totally effective in Washington state is to automatically SEAL the court records of ALL vacated convictions, so that NO ONE can see ANYTHING! But, unfortunately, and inexplicably, lawmakers don't want to do this. Judges don't really want to seal vacated criminal records, even though they have the power to do so. Why not? Simply because there is tremendous pressure from various corners to keep ALL court records OPEN, regardless of individual circumstances. Whenever a court record is sealed, questions are raised, and someone takes the "heat" for it. When judges do seal records, they do so reluctantly, if not grudgingly. A tremendous burden of proof is placed on the shoulders of the petitioner with the vacated criminal record to show why his/her record should be sealed. Basically, you have to "prove" to the court what the court already is fully aware of, that a vacated conviction with an unsealed record is essentially worthless. Are judges aware that almost all employers today do background searches? of course they are. Are they aware that background searches uncover the court records of vacated convictions? Of course they are. Are they aware that employers reject applicants when these convictions are uncovered? Of course they are. Then why do you have to "prove" any of this to a judge? Simply because THEY DON'T WANT TO SEAL YOUR RECORD, and they won't unless you can prove that YOUR record should be sealed. The fact that other individuals have had their records sealed for these exact same reasons makes no difference. You have to prove that YOUR record needs to be sealed, never mind about anybody else's record. It's just an excuse to avoid doing something they don't want to do. Sickening. Will it change someday? I hope to God it does.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    240

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    I agree it should be totally sealed. However even with a totally sealed record does not mean at all that it won't show up on internet. Believe me what your state offers, is a lot better than other states. You still have the opportunity to say no, and i do believe it helps.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    Quote Quoting equality
    View Post
    I agree it should be totally sealed. However even with a totally sealed record does not mean at all that it won't show up on internet. Believe me what your state offers, is a lot better than other states. You still have the opportunity to say no, and i do believe it helps.
    That is a fact of course, there is no way to make certain that it won't show up somehow on some database, there are simply too many and there's no way of knowing exactly how and when each one got their information. And yes, I realize that my state offers more than other states, and I am thankful for that, in spite of my rants about it. There should be some uniformity among ALL the states on this issue, but that's another issue featuring a big can of worms. It looks like they're getting something going in New York state, long known for not affording anything in the way of relief for a criminal record. If New York state were to agree to seal criminal convictions (where appropriate, of course), then hopefully this way of thinking would influence other states. Sealing a record is not a perfect solution, but short of literally deleting an otherwise vacated or expunged record it is the next best thing, and can give you "ammunition" to fight those who would reject or persecute you for your record.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    And even more idiotic is the fact that, under current Washington State "good law", even if you manage to get your vacated criminal file sealed, it cannot be sealed permanently, only "temporarily". My attorney told me that "we can't ask for that (permament sealing) anymore". Apparently too many folks were getting their vacated criminal files permanently sealed and this was upsetting a lot of people. At my hearing, the prosecutor, as part of her "argument" against my file being sealed, actually complained to the judge (also a female) that my attorney had gotten too many records sealed and it was time to put a stop to this practice. It was time to set a new "precedent", and my case was a good "starting point", I guess. So, as the law now stands, you can have your conviction (or deferred sentence in my case), vacated permanently, you only have to meet the requirements of the vacate statute, which I met. But sealing, if you can get it, will no longer be permanent, unless somebody gets some new, sensible legislation passed. Why seal only temporarily? Apparently, the thinking is, if you can't get a job or housing, they'll seal your file until you get your job or housing, and then "unseal" it. Now, isn't that splendid? You get your file sealed, pass the background check, get your new job. Then, maybe five or who knows how many years later, your file is "unsealed" somehow, by an alarm clock going off I guess. Then somebody does a background check for some reason, and you suddenly get "found out", and get fired. And even if you don't get fired, you no longer feel safe, because that now unsealed record is poised and ready to destroy you at any moment. Once the record is unsealed, you then have to go back to court and go through the process all over again to get it sealed so you can get another job and feel "safe" for another brief period of time. This is absolute insanity, and my heart goes out to everyone in this situation. And there will be an increasing number, because attorneys continue to sell "vacating your criminal record" to people who will think they are getting a really great deal. Attorneys trumpet the wonderful "benefits" of vacating, but they do not tell you what the real end results will be. The "law" says that if your conviction is vacated you have the "right" to say you were never convicted of that crime, but the law does not require anyone to believe you or hire you, so what kind of a law is that? It's a law that says you have the right to tell people a lie, and that you cannot be penalized for telling that lie if they find out that it is, indeed, a lie, which they WILL discover when they find your unsealed court file. So what is accomplished by all of this? Prospective employers and other "interested parties"will find out that you were trying to hide your criminal record, and they will probably have a chuckle over it. Now that's a good law.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Record Sealing in Washington State

    Hello Control voice I am also in a similar situation. It would seem you know quite a bit about this sort of stuff. My situation is I have had juvenille and adult convictions. I actually just had my juvenile record sealed and now would like to start on my adult. I have about seven charges on my adult I believe but there all misdemeanors I need to know what types of charges you can have sealed and I have been reading up on expungement and thats sounds alot better then sealing because they actually delete your information from what I understand. And I have actually been turned down from work stating that my convictions were the reason they havre had reconsidered my employment with them.It sucked because i actually quit my job to become employed withe them and they could carless they don't me they would have like five years clean and it was like four and a half which really pissed me off. but you have actually had an attorney and you seem to know alot more about this stuff and I would like to gather some information from you and see if we both can help each other out because it also sounds like I am going to need that letter of proof of good reason why I would like my convictions sealed or vacated or even better expunged if you good get back to me on this that would be very helpful to both of us

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Expungement and Sealing: Expunged Juvenile Record in Washington State
    By WeatherbyPerryacres in forum Criminal Records
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-25-2009, 07:55 AM
  2. Expungement and Sealing: Sealing a Dismissed Juvenile Case in Washington State
    By disgruntleddutch in forum Criminal Records
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-15-2007, 11:46 AM
  3. Arrest Procedure: Sealing the Arrest in Washington State
    By pleaseadvice in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-28-2007, 03:40 PM
  4. Criminal Records: Juvenile Record in Washington State
    By bikerpyroboy in forum Criminal Records
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-11-2007, 08:43 PM
  5. Expungement and Sealing: Clearing a Washington State Criminal Record
    By Nichole in forum Criminal Records
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-07-2006, 11:24 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources