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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    5

    Default Penalty for Sex Act with 16-Year-Old

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Calif

    A close friend who has been a counselor for more than 30 years,
    never had an allegation of any kind ever made against him has
    been arrested with a 16 yr old claiming he performed oral sex.
    The mother has been receiving counseling as well, and is said
    to be behind the daughter's accusations. The couselor is 74
    years old, and devoted his life to helping people, even when
    they couldn't pay. He even works with the police dept. is an
    upstanding citizen, and is always professional with all his
    clients. There is no hospital visit to collect any evidence
    after the alleged molestation.(That would have been the
    first place I would have gone if this had actually happened.)

    My question is, there isn't any evidence except it's her word
    against his, will the judge take into account his clean record
    of 30+ years, and would he get jail time if found guilty,
    considering his age ?

    We dated for 2 years 20 years ago, and became best friends.
    During our dating I was having problems with my then 12 yr old
    son, and the counselor wouldn't counsel me, he said he could
    loose his license, but did give me resources to get help else
    where.

    I know this person, and he would never jeopardize everything
    he's worked so hard for, his practice, home, doctorate, etc.
    and would never touch any client, regardless of age. He's
    always been very professional, nothing less.

    I've heard in cases like this they usually take the defendants
    word over the accused, is this true ? I can't believe our judicial
    system would be so one sided, to be able to destroy a person's
    entire life, based merly on a person's word, and who is receiving
    counseling.

    He's willing to take a polygraph although it can't be used in
    court.

    Also, if found innocent, does he have any recourse to recover
    the cost they have caused this person ?

    Thank you,

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Somewhere near Canada
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    35,894

    Default Re: Possible Sentence Accused of Sex Act with 16 Year Old

    It will be investigated, and the history of both parties may become relevant.

    The alleged victim has to overcome a huge burden of proof here - his/her word will NOT be assumed to be true; for a conviction there will need to be proof of the alleged act.

    Also, please understand that "not guilty" and "unsubstantiated" do not necessarily equate to "innocent". In this country, "innocent" is not a legal determination.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Texas/Tejas
    Posts
    1,879

    Default Re: Possible Sentence Accused of Sex Act with 16 Year Old

    He needs an attorney. The DA wont dismiss charges simply because he's an upstanding citizen. You have any idea how many "upstanding citizens" use their good name and position of power to exploit innocent children? Several!

    I ain't sayin' your friend is guilty, but needs to consult legal counsel.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Possible Sentence Accused of Sex Act with 16 Year Old

    I understand what you're saying, what I'm saying is he has no history other than being professional in 74 years. I feel it should always be investigated first, then make an arrest if warranted. Not make an arrest then investigate. By making an arrest first, it's stating a person is guilty, now has a record, even if found later to be innocent. And the damage is already done

    On the flip side, a lot of people's lives have been destroyed because of false accusations, people's reputations, and financially. Yet nothing is done to those who falsly accuse someone.

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    It will be investigated, and the history of both parties may become relevant.

    The alleged victim has to overcome a huge burden of proof here - his/her word will NOT be assumed to be true; for a conviction there will need to be proof of the alleged act.

    Also, please understand that "not guilty" and "unsubstantiated" do not necessarily equate to "innocent". In this country, "innocent" is not a legal determination.
    Thank you, that's good to know. It should always be investigated first, then make an arrest if warranted. Not make an arrest, then investigate. By making an arrest first, it's stating a person is guilty, they now have a record, even if found not guilty. So the damage has already done.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Texas/Tejas
    Posts
    1,879

    Default Re: Possible Sentence Accused of Sex Act with 16 Year Old

    Vintage, I agree. The police should always conduct a thorough
    investigation BEFORE an arrest is made. Unfortunately, this is RARELY the case.

    I ain't sayin' you friend/ex-boyfriend is guilty, but I ain't gonna exonerate him either. When I was a child, my father warned my siblings and I of a local prominent, well-respected, and "upstanding" citizen who used his position as a deacon and business owner to gain the trust of some of the less-fortunate youth in our community. After he befriended them, he would manipulate them into preforming various... activities on him. When ever one of his victims would come froward, the locals dismissed the accusations as the slanderous rhetoric of "poor white trash". My fathers youngest sister (my aunt)claims to have been one of his victims. This old demon is still around and highly-respected today. If he wasn't now a 90 something year old man, he would have an ass-whupin' comin' his way!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Possible Sentence Accused of Sex Act with 16 Year Old

    Quote Quoting blueeagle
    View Post
    Vintage, I agree. The police should always conduct a thorough
    investigation BEFORE an arrest is made. Unfortunately, this is RARELY the case.

    I ain't sayin' you friend/ex-boyfriend is guilty, but I ain't gonna exonerate him either. When I was a child, my father warned my siblings and I of a local prominent, well-respected, and "upstanding" citizen who used his position as a deacon and business owner to gain the trust of some of the less-fortunate youth in our community. After he befriended them, he would manipulate them into preforming various... activities on him. When ever one of his victims would come froward, the locals dismissed the accusations as the slanderous rhetoric of "poor white trash". My fathers youngest sister (my aunt)claims to have been one of his victims. This old demon is still around and highly-respected today. If he wasn't now a 90 something year old man, he would have an ass-whupin' comin' his way!
    I know what you're saying and agree 100%, but my friend has never been accused of anything by anyone in 74 years. They took 3 computers and found nothing, nothing in his home, nothing at his office, nothing to even suggest there's even a remote possibility he's guilty. He's also one of several Pastor's at his church, there again, not a single accusation or the possibility of any wrong doing.

    Yet he's on house arrest, can't counsel anyone including adults until after the trial, so far has cost him $20K up front for his attorney to take the case, his bail, he will loose his house, and business, even if found not guilty. At 74 you don't start your life over again.

    And absolutely nothing will be done to the girl or mother for lying ( if this is the case, and believe it is). The system makes it so easy to accuse and destroy people's lives, and doesn't care whether there's a possibility a
    person is innocent or not. Where's our justice system for those who are falsly accused ? It doesn't exist, and doesn't care. So I guess the bottom line is, it makes little difference even if you're innocent, "not guilty", your life is already destroyed.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: Penalty for Sex Act with 16-Year-Old

    Quote Quoting vintage
    View Post
    My question is, there isn't any evidence except it's her word
    against his, will the judge take into account his clean record
    of 30+ years, and would he get jail time if found guilty,
    considering his age ?
    The judge might, but it is the jury that decides guilt or innocence, not the judge ... unless, of course, the defendant opts for a court trial as opposed to a jury trial.

    If it is true that all the state has is their statements and nothing to corroborate it, the state likely will not pursue the matter. if they do pursue it, they almost certainly have something more. They might have other victims that have come forward, maybe recordings texts or e-mails, or something.

    I know this person, and he would never jeopardize everything
    he's worked so hard for, his practice, home, doctorate, etc.
    and would never touch any client, regardless of age. He's
    always been very professional, nothing less.
    Not to say that this is the situation here, but I know of a couple of pedophiles who had people saying these things about them - including state and local politicians, college professors, and others who stood up for these guys. The point is, molesters can come in any stripe and the people around them rarely know, and usually cannot believe, that the person is a predator.

    As I said, not saying that your observations are wrong, but in all honesty they can be.

    I've heard in cases like this they usually take the defendants
    word over the accused, is this true ?
    They investigate under the assumption that the accusation is true, but they cannot generally convict on the statement alone.

    He's willing to take a polygraph although it can't be used in
    court.
    The police may request it ... he would be foolish to accept it without first consulting an attorney. There are good reasons to take it (such as convincing the police to back off ... maybe), and good reasons not to take it (he could fail because of nervousness or a poor polygrapher evaluation). he should consult an attorney if he is seriously a target.

    Also, if found innocent, does he have any recourse to recover the cost they have caused this person ?
    Any lawsuit would have to show that the accuser knowingly and intentionally made up the story. This is a tough burden of proof unless the accuser confesses. Being found not guilty is not being found "innocent." What it would mean is that the state was unable to make a strong enough case to convince a jury of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Penalty for Sex Act with 16-Year-Old

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    The judge might, but it is the jury that decides guilt or innocence, not the judge ... unless, of course, the defendant opts for a court trial as opposed to a jury trial.

    If it is true that all the state has is their statements and nothing to corroborate it, the state likely will not pursue the matter. if they do pursue it, they almost certainly have something more. They might have other victims that have come forward, maybe recordings texts or e-mails, or something.


    Not to say that this is the situation here, but I know of a couple of pedophiles who had people saying these things about them - including state and local politicians, college professors, and others who stood up for these guys. The point is, molesters can come in any stripe and the people around them rarely know, and usually cannot believe, that the person is a predator.

    As I said, not saying that your observations are wrong, but in all honesty they can be.


    They investigate under the assumption that the accusation is true, but they cannot generally convict on the statement alone.


    The police may request it ... he would be foolish to accept it without first consulting an attorney. There are good reasons to take it (such as convincing the police to back off ... maybe), and good reasons not to take it (he could fail because of nervousness or a poor polygrapher evaluation). he should consult an attorney if he is seriously a target.

    Any lawsuit would have to show that the accuser knowingly and intentionally made up the story. This is a tough burden of proof unless the accuser confesses. Being found not guilty is not being found "innocent." What it would mean is that the state was unable to make a strong enough case to convince a jury of his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Apparently the DA's office has contacted current and past clients who are/were minors, and didn't find even one who has ever been touched in anyway, male or female. And the only time he ever has contact with any minor is with
    counseling. The accuser never went to a hospital so they could collect
    evidence, and as a parent, it would have been the first place I would have
    taken my child to be examined. Unless of course I was aware it never happened.

    Thanks for everyone's input, I really appreciate it all. And will keep you posted of the outcome of this nightmare.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Penalty for Sex Act with 16-Year-Old

    If the act happened some time in the past, a hospital exam may be useless as there would be no forensic evidence. If the child were very young, the only advantage of a forensic exam might be to determine if there is tearing or bruising consistent with the sex act alleged. Even then, with time, the injuries would have healed.

    In the case of oral sex, after the first 48-72 hours it is unlikely that any forensic exam would have yielded anything, so even the police might not have requested a hospital exam.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    368

    Default Re: Penalty for Sex Act with 16-Year-Old

    Although a polygraph cannot be used in court, the prosecutor can use it to decide if he wants to pursue this charge or drop it. His defense atty can request one and then present it to the prosecutor.

    Plus, the mother isn't lying just because she believes her daughter. She is doing the right thing. If he is not guilty it's the daughter who has the greatest sin, not the mother.

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