Use of Postings on Public Forum in Court

[buddingrose]

I have *stumbled* upon some postings in a public forum by my childrens step mother that would be very damaging to their case in court. Are these logs admissible in court by simply printing the posts directly from the website? Or would my attorney have to subpoena official records from the website administrator? This site is very secretive and goes to great legnths to protect its posters. I fear that if they get served the records may magically vanish...

[Dogmatique]

What's your goal?

(there is a reason for my question )

[buddingrose]

My goal is to show that the step mother does not like my children, is in multiple violations of the court order, intends to commit fraud, discredit the counselor that she is seeing behind the kids backs (kids think this lady is unbias andeverything is said in confidence), show that she only got custody of kids out of spite and to avoid child support, etc, etc, etc, ultimately to get my children back.

[Dogmatique]

Here's your problem.

Can you prove that it's her, and not you (for example - or me!) who is making the posts in order to discredit her?

Also, she doesn't have to like your children. I have a feeling there's more to this so if you don't mind, I have a couple of questions

Which court order do you believe she's violation of? Is she specifically named in any court order relating to your children?

What fraud?

What's going on with the counselor?

Does SHE actually have custody with your ex?

[buddingrose]

Here's your problem.

Can you prove that it's her, and not you (for example - or me!) who is making the posts in order to discredit her?
The only way I can prove that it is her is by having my daughter get involved, she is the one that told me about her posting to the site and her username. I have printed all posts from that username. Many of the posts talk very specifically about things only she knows, and also copy and pastes emails that I am sending to my ex. I guess my daughters testimony is the only thing I really have

Also, she doesn't have to like your children. I have a feeling there's more to this so if you don't mind, I have a couple of questions
You're right, she doesnt have to like them, but she does have to respect them and not treat them like 100% crap. My 10 year old says that "this is a stressful place to be when she is around." and my 12 year old says "I would rather live outside with the dogs because this is how she treats me"
Which court order do you believe she's violation of? Is she specifically named in any court order relating to your children?
She is- The judge recognized her overinvolvment and verbatim told her to "back off" in our CO she is not allowed to access emails between ex and I, make disparaging remarks against me to my children, etc. Judge also told her that her involvement is to consist of transportation to and from dr's appts and not to get involved in what goes on with the providers. Of course this part was left out of the final CO along with other things that judge says directly to her. (it was a long drawn out ordeal and finally had to chose my battles including ordering them to get Skype account so that I can communicate with the kids at least 2 days a week. His web cam does not work and he refuses to get it fixed. Hard to enforce?

What fraud?
She talks about how irate she is that her income will be taken n to consideration when my kids fill out FAFSA and may prevent them from getting financial aid (she is planning WAY too far ahead) and she is hiding money in savings accounts under only her name and is going to blatently ommit the information from the FAFSA ( I know this will come back to haunt her, but the intent is sickening)
What's going on with the counselor?
Wow... were to start? Kids have been seeing a counselor, I was never notified (another violation of order), counselor has been in cahouts (sp) with step mom (also violation of order- she is not allowed to say anything disparaging against me to any provider of the kids) and has obviously convinced this lady of god knows what and not to speak to me at all, counselor will not have contact with me and refuses to provide me with any records. She believes the counselor will testify to PA ()
Does SHE actually have custody with your ex?

No, she doesn't, but the way she acts/talks you would think she does! Everything in her posts is "we, I, us, our"


Sorry so long, yes, there IS a LOT going on here.

[Dogmatique]

Phew..what a mess. I can absolutely understand your frustration.

Unfortunately there really isn't much here which is actually actionable. It's always possible that Dad can actually have the counselor testify, by the way.

Keep recording what's going on, keep printing out the messages etc. Sooner or later, if you give her enough rope...well, you know what I'm saying.

[buddingrose]

I think she has already done a swell job of hanging herself. It's a matter of me being able to prove it.
As far as the counselor and all that goes, why is there no mention of me making these remarks to my children and "PAS" if it's SO real in the motion to enforce? Doesnt it seem like if I was trying to alienate him and they had any serious proof that they would try to enforce that? Instead of just bringing her along to validate their reasons for denying me access to the kids? ( I know this leaks over from the other post, sorry)

When you talked about me being able to prove that it is her and not me (or you) Wouldn't the same thing stand to reason with a bunch of emails that I have sent to her and my ex that I know will be used against me, but dont want to? What's good for the goose... ?

[LawResearcherMissy]

When you talked about me being able to prove that it is her and not me (or you) Wouldn't the same thing stand to reason with a bunch of emails that I have sent to her and my ex that I know will be used against me, but dont want to? What's good for the goose... ?

It's easier to prove the origins of email than it is to prove the origins of message board posts.

When you send e-mail, it passes through a number of servers to get to its destination. The origin is recorded, as is the entire path the email takes. Some email clients even include the name of the originating computer in the headers, which makes it awfully difficult to claim that your email account was hacked and someone else sent those emails. You can trace email back to its provider all by yourself, and get a court order to get the rest of the way.

Message boards, OTOH, are accessible from everywhere, including through proxy servers, and are much more difficult to trace without cooperation from both the board's administrators and the board's hosting service before you can even think about trying to get back to its ultimate origin.

Shorter version: It's easier to fake board posts than emails.

[Dogmatique]

Very well put

(That, and it's incredibly difficult to successfully subpeona these message board owners...)

[Mr. Knowitall]

Sometimes people admit that they made certain posts - making the issue of foundation pretty easy. Screen captures are a good place to start, followed by steps your lawyer can take, such as issuing subpoenas that may connect the account to a user by IP address, email, or other identifying information.

Subpoenas can be served on the website's administrator, but it's also possible to go through the webhost.