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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    2

    Default Failure to Stop at Limit Line, CVC 22450(A)

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Well like others here, I recieved a ticket for failure to stop at the limit (per the violation number noted in the subject line). The thing is I was so shocked to get it because I normally do stop, and i have to come to a complete stop before my car will allow me to shift into first to take off. Plus, I've already taken driving school earlier this year for a speeding ticket and I specifically remember that being a subject of stopping, so I'm always careful to stop.

    There is no way I can afford a point on my record as my insurance would sky rocket, and I wouldn't mind (if it was made available) to take traffic school. But obviously I can't, per the 18 month rule.

    So here's what I remember, it was a three way stop sign and from what I can tell, the officer was in the side street. The side street is somewhat of a incline but not that much. He said I rolled and said I didn't come to a complete stop. Maybe he saw my car taking off and thought I didn't stop, so he didn't give me enough time to consider it a stop. He noted 7 mph, but it's noted under the "Speed Approx" section, not the radar section. Also how far back is considered stopping before the limit line? I took a defensive driver course and I remember that stopping 10'ft before the limit line is a good number, so maybe while parked on the side street, he didn't see me stop well before the limit line. Are these valid points that I can use to fight the ticket?

    If not, I don't mind taking the traffic school (level 1) to get the point off my record if I am convicted.

    I want to do this all by Trial by written declaration. How do I state this without incriminating myself?

    Interestingly I went by the same intersection and the same officers were parked out there and stopped someone else too. I'm wondering if the court recieves all these non-guilty pleas if I even have a chance at this point.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: 22450 A; California Failure to Stop at Limit Line

    Based on what you've posted here, I really don't see you getting not even a decent chance at a dismissal... A few example of why...

    First, it would be safe to assume that the officer's statement about the 7mph was arrived at by him visually estimating your speeed. And yes, most, if not all traffic enforcement officers are trained to do that with an accuracy of 2 to 3 mph... So even if his was an over estimate, his testifying to that would suggest that you rolled the stop sign at 4 to 5 mph which still leaves you in violation.

    Second, stopping 10 feet before the limit line is neither a reasonable argument, nor its it a proper way of stopping at a stop sign. Not sure where you took that defensive driving course, but you can rest assured that nobody would admit to teaching that... Who knows, maybe you understood. Limit lines are usually set up in a manner to allow the driver to stop far enough from the inside of the intersection so as not to interfere with cross traffic and yet as close to it as possible to allow him/her to check cross traffic to allow him/her to ensure his/her right of way as well as safe passage throught the intersection. basically, you MUST stop at or before the limit line, check cross traffic, and if you have the right of way, then you may proceed through accordingly.

    Third, if you have taken traffic school in the last 18 months, then you will not be offered the (level 1) traffic school option. And as you may well already know, the level 2 traffic school, and while it will not result in the addition of a violation point to your record upon conviction, the fact that it will still appear on there (even as a zero point violation) might not stop your insurance carrier prevent an increase in your premium.

    Forth, the fact that you saw the officer(s) citing someone else for the same violation and at the same intersection will have no effect whatsoever on the outcome of your case. beisdes, how do you know that the court will receive any (or however many) guilty pleas for the same violation at the same intersection????

    Lastly, the only glimmer of hope that you have here is your arguing that the officer was unable to see the location of the limit line in relation to where you stopped (or didn't stop)... In cases like this, however, and when it is your word against that of the officer, his/hers will usually carry more weight in court than yours... And the burden to prove that you did in fact legally stop, will be an uphill battle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    2

    Default Re: Failure to Stop at Limit Line, CVC 22450(A)

    Thanks "That Guy" I appreaciate your response and thank you for taking the time to reply.

    I've been trying to figure out how I can deal with this ticket, and I remember someone a while back threw himself at the mercy of the court and although he paid the fines and admitted guilt, the individual requested traffic school to erase the point because of a financial burden it would bring if his insurance went up. Is this an approach I should try then and request tier 1 even though I've taken it before?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Failure to Stop at Limit Line, CVC 22450(A)

    For me it is really simple....read the code......read section (c).
    The reason for the stop sign is to promote safety....section C allows the city to put in stop signs to promote safety.

    And to the argument that you cant stop 10 feet before the limit line. The law says you have to stop AT the limit line, but to what granularity????

    Being that 70% of the time, cops don't show up for court you win. You win 7/10 times. Don't confess when you are facing the judge. I was in court and the judge kept saying "I want to find you not guilty, but you confessed" and then would find them guilty....
    so don't say "I was going through the stop sign because....."
    instead "even if the officer is right, it met section C because my actions were safe. So I am not guilty of this section"...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    1

    Default Re: Failure to Stop at Limit Line, CVC 22450(A)

    Quote Quoting winyourticket
    View Post
    For me it is really simple....read the code......read section (c).
    The reason for the stop sign is to promote safety....section C allows the city to put in stop signs to promote safety.

    And to the argument that you cant stop 10 feet before the limit line. The law says you have to stop AT the limit line, but to what granularity????

    Being that 70% of the time, cops don't show up for court you win. You win 7/10 times. Don't confess when you are facing the judge. I was in court and the judge kept saying "I want to find you not guilty, but you confessed" and then would find them guilty....
    so don't say "I was going through the stop sign because....."
    instead "even if the officer is right, it met section C because my actions were safe. So I am not guilty of this section"...
    Nuance question. One car in front. No other traffic. Police parked west of intersection. Vehicle in front stoped as did I. Vehicle proceeded. I quick stoped and proceeded. Cited by police. Additional. Date of ticket 10/26/2009. Received notice changing date of appearance from 01/10/09 to 01/10/2010. Ticket not registered. Received notice 01/12/2010 changing court appearance from 01/10/09 to 03/10/2010. Any bearing on case?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Failure to Stop at Limit Line, CVC 22450(A)

    Quote Quoting BHerron375
    View Post
    Any bearing on case?
    Nope... And if you have any more questions, please start your own thread!

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