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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    Quote Quoting Majblitz
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    Are there any guidelines for investigating noise?
    Well, any such investigation would be subject to the law and to agency policy. In general, no, there is not some pre-formatted policy or law that says an officer must follow particular steps when investigating a noice complaint.

    The noise level was admitted by one of them as not having broken any regulations, but they it was loud enough that they thought it could disturb the neighbors.
    The latter is generally sufficient under the law.

    Plus, the police can walk to the door and talk to anyone they want. if John Q. Public can do it, so can the cops.

    As far as investigating minors drinking, so can they just go up to any house and ask for the the ids of everyone who is drinking inside the premises?
    They can ASK, but they might not be able to compel ID. It depends on the circumstances and whether any crime can be articulated.

    The Police officer merely said the door had to stay open so she could see inside. I also understand their need to be careful and mindful of their surroundings, how are they to know if they cannot see?
    I like to see what's going on inside as well. But, unless I can articulate an officer safety reason, I would probably lose any evidence I observed if I forced someone to keep the door open against their will. Just to be able to see inside is, by itself, not likely to be legal. Absent a safety issue, unless I have the lawful authority to enter or search, I doubt I can legally force the owner to keep the door open.


    - Carl

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    The Police officer merely said the door had to stay open so she could see inside. I also understand their need to be careful and mindful of their surroundings, how are they to know if they cannot see?

    I like to see what's going on inside as well. But, unless I can articulate an officer safety reason, I would probably lose any evidence I observed if I forced someone to keep the door open against their will. Just to be able to see inside is, by itself, not likely to be legal. Absent a safety issue, unless I have the lawful authority to enter or search, I doubt I can legally force the owner to keep the door open.


    - Carl
    Carl, I was reading a case sometime ago, and darn I did not bookmark it, but the facts were very similar.

    It was a loud music case I think also. The officer went to the door, and the person inside just cracked it open and would not let him in, when the officer tried to open it just a little the man pushed it back, and I think the officer put his foot in. The reasoning was he said he was concerned he had a weapon behind the door.

    After a few seconds of a tussle the officer burst in and there was contraband in plain view, and he was charged with it.

    IF I remember right, the court permitted it's admission.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    Sounds like the court agreed with the officer safety exception. I, too, do not like people concealed behind the door for just that reason.

    - Carl

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    Thanks Carl! I have the answers I came for. After scouring the internet for hours trying to figure it out, you helped me. Thanks!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    what if a neighbor hears a scream. but its on TV and call the police? can they ask to come in and look around? sometimes you have the volume set to normal levels but the studio has enhanced the volume and effect of the scream scene and with todays TVs and surround sounds..it can be seemingly realistic.
    then again if youre watching a movie are you legally required to answer the knock at your door?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    It would take more than a single scream to get the police out there. And you would have to have one nosy and pretty stupid neighbor. You don't have to let the police into your house on such a flimsy pretense. What they might do then though is debatable.

    Down south recently there was the boy that was kidnapped by the pizza guy and then another boy. The first boy was raped and tortured repeatedly, crying and screaming bloody murder. This was in a cheap apartment building. The neighbors heard it all and NOBODY called the police.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    Quote Quoting THEAMAZINGCHAN
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    what if a neighbor hears a scream. but its on TV and call the police? can they ask to come in and look around?
    If they have sufficient probable cause to articulate a public safety exception to the warrant rule or consent, then, yes.

    After all, how are the police to know the scream was from a television until after they look in to it.

    then again if youre watching a movie are you legally required to answer the knock at your door?
    No. But, if a neighbor hears a scream, calls the police,the police arrive and hear a loud TV with no answer at the door, they may very well force entry.

    - Carl

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Police on Private Property

    Quote Quoting BOR
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    Carl, I was reading a case sometime ago, and darn I did not bookmark it, but the facts were very similar.

    It was a loud music case I think also. The officer went to the door, and the person inside just cracked it open and would not let him in, when the officer tried to open it just a little the man pushed it back, and I think the officer put his foot in. The reasoning was he said he was concerned he had a weapon behind the door.

    After a few seconds of a tussle the officer burst in and there was contraband in plain view, and he was charged with it.

    IF I remember right, the court permitted it's admission.

    This is the case, but I was wrong, the Appeals court vacated the District court ruling.

    page 7:

    A.
    The governments first argument, that the officers requiring
    Mowatt to open his door so that they could see him did not constitute
    a search, is easily resolved. It is well established that a search occurs
    for Fourth Amendment purposes "when officers gain visual or physi-
    cal access to a . . . room after an occupant opens the door not volun-
    tarily, but in response to a demand under color of authority." United
    States v. Conner, 127 F.3d 663, 666 (8th Cir. 1997). Under such cir-
    cumstances, the fact that "the officers gained visual access to the inte-
    rior of a dwelling without physically entering it is irrelevant to the
    question [of] whether a search was effected." United States v. Win-
    sor, 846 F.2d 1569, 1572 (9th Cir. 1988) (en banc).


    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/...th/064886p.pdf

    Here they demanded he open the door. Par. 3 states about how the officers felt he had a weapon.

    The officer tried to grab for the person's shoulder when he would not open the door, the person pushed the officer away and then they busted in.

    The court ruled the exigent circumstances for entry did not exists and the Motion to supress that was denied by the District court, was reversed here.

    Here is the Connor case cited above:

    Other circuits agree:

    par. 10:

    The district court, however, correctly determined that an unconstitutional search occurs when officers gain visual or physical access to a motel room after an occupant opens the door not voluntarily, but in response to a demand under color of authority. See United States v. Jerez, 108 F.3d 684, 692 (7th Cir.1997); United States v. Tovar-Rico, 61 F.3d 1529, 1535-36 (11th Cir.1995); United States v. Winsor, 846 F.2d 1569, 1572 (9th Cir.1988) (en banc). Further, we find no error in the district court's determination that, under the totality of circumstances, Tilton did not voluntarily consent to the officers' entry into the motel room.2 Thus, the police officers' action constituted an unconstitutional intrusion into that zone of privacy.3

    http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/...3.97-1085.html

    Majblitz, Arkansas is in the 8th Circuit, so Connor is applicable. The police requiring you to keep open the door so they can see in IS a search under the 4th AM.

    They could NOT have forced you to keep it open, IMO.

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