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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    107

    Default Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    So I got a ticket at the beginning of the month. The ticket was filed the next day with the court, but I am still waiting to see discovery. Officer was on a motorcycle at the intersection of 15th Ave S & S Nevada, said he 'pulled me over for speeding 43 in a 30'. Honestly I saw the officer on his motorcycle hands on the handle bars the hole time, never once did he have his SMD in his hand though he checked it off on the ticket. That argument won't fly in court so the point is moot except it irritated me enough to want to fight the ticket. Seattle PD used Kustom Pro Laser III for there SMD. The situation is there is a number of trees in the way between the officer and where he says he lasered me at 329.5 feet. (see attached photo, 329.5f is approximately where the furthest back white car is behind the other white car) Is this consistent with how the device should be operated or is it possible the trees could have thrown off the speed? Anyone know how or where I could obtain a copy of the Kustom Pro III operators manual?

    Thanks for any advice you can offer, I'm kind of at a loss as to how to pursue this.

    http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...,0.022724&z=16


  2. #2
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    Sep 2009
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    107

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    Quote Quoting jjb
    View Post
    (see attached photo, 329.5f is approximately where the furthest back white car is behind the other white car)
    Correction, I was about 100' behind where the second white car is. I had to go measure it to be sure. The spot I was at was according to the ticket not even visible on this picture. I know the motorcycle's front tire was not in the walk way, and I am standing on the spot where his front tire was when I took the picture.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    The link that you posted doesn't really show much of anything; your post is not clear as to where you were in reference to him (north or south of him). At any rate, 329.5 feet is well withing the distance that Laser can effectively and accurately measure speed. I guess you'll have to wait and see what he says in his statement.

    I'm sure Barry will have more to say about this one.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2009
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    107

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    Thanks, I really do need to work on how I am going to convey this. Yeah I was north of him, traveling south on the outside lane (lane #1). I tried to grab a shot of the screen with the points marked off but it just didn't turn out well. The picture is from the officers position at S. Nevada & 15th Ave S, looking north. I don't question that the SMD can reach 329.5 feet. I do however question how it can see through a line of trees, a telephone pole, a fence, and a some other plants as there is no line of sight. Assuming the officer did get my vehicle, could all of the stuff in the way give the SMD a false reading?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    Well, I can see the 2 big trees that you're talking about, but if you go back to the street level view, you can see that the trees are not as big and green as they may seem in the overhead picture.

    I am by no means suggesting that you're guilty. All I'm saying is that if the officer is going to make a statement that he measured your speed at 329.5 feet, a Google Maps picture (that was taken who-knows-when, and one from a different angle that where he was) isn't going to refute his version. You may want to consider other areas of his statement.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
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    3,577

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    The picture that you took



    is almost identical to the Google Maps "street view" -- just a little closer to the ground (and a lot clearer).

    However, I'm afraid I have to agree with St. That Guy. Since the Kustom ProLaser III has an acquisition time of .3 seconds (and you'd only have moved about 19 feet at 43 MPH -- less if you claim you WEREN'T going that fast -- in that time), I think the officer could EASILY have "shot" you between two trees.

    However, if there's nothing else in the officer's sworn statement or the lidar calibration, it may be your only defense. Are you eligible for a deferral?

    Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    107

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    Berry,

    Thanks for including that picture, I don't know why it doesn't seam to show up on my original post. I really do appreciate That Guy's and your critique. My claim is that it's not possible to see 329.5 feet down the road as it's not even showing up in that photo. The other part of it is IF the officer was able to get a shot between the trees that far away (he would have to be even further forward than the picture blocking the walkway), the manufacture says the beam is 3' x 3' @ 1000' which works out to 11.862" @329.5 feet. I believe the officer could have made a mistake in how he used his SMD and gotten a signal off my car and .3 seconds later got a signal off a tree or vise versa. I dunno maybe it's a reach as I have yet to convince either of you two and you've got a lot more experience than me. I'm still awaiting discovery, so maybe something else will show up...
    Yeah I am eligible for a deferral if I need to go that route.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    That's not how they work. The laser sends out pulses -- about 1 every 3 milliseconds. So, it uses about 100 readings to clock you. It "times" the reflections to determine how far away the target is for EACH pulse. If then "computes" the speed of the vehicle by the change in distance divided by the elapsed time. The officer is looking through a telescopic sight and places the reticle on your car. And an 11 inch diameter light beam hitting your license plate or headlight is a pretty accurate "shot" (a radar beam covers all four lanes of a highway at 250 feet, making it much easier to argue that the officer radared another car instead of yours).

    If your car passed behind a tree, the "distance" for that shot would drop dramatically. Then as your car emerges from behind the tree, it would "jump" back up. Either that, or there would be no reflection from the tree, leaving a gap in the readings. The units are programmed to either disregard such anomalies or to display an error, making the operator start over.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't make your arguments, but it's best to know how the units work when you do.

    Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    Ok, it seams that it is possible he got me fairly. I'll await discovery and see if anything is in there if not take a deferral and move on. I want to take Berry and That Guy for your efforts as it's helped me see things clearly. You guys really do a lot of good work and I want you to know I appreciate it!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Speeding Ticket in Seattle

    Well I just wanted to post on what happened. I called a traffic attorney and ended up hiring them. They said that particular officer has been sitting there and handing out tickets left and right (they had several clients from this officer/location), and all his reports are written perfectly including mine. I ended up getting a deferral, cost was $100 in administrative fees. Looking back on it hiring an attorney probably wasn't necessary but having them appear for me was worth a lot so that's what got me... Thanks to everyone for all the information it really did help put things in prospective for me.

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