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  1. #1
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    Default No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Am fighting a "parking" ticket for violation of a "no stopping anytime" sign posting. The violation code used on the initial ticket stated 15.64.260 stopped at posted "no stopping anytime". This ticket was issued by the city, not a police agency.

    After requesting an administrative review (and including numerous photographs showing the sign is not visible) which was denied, I am preparing for a trial by mail. On the denial notice, I see that the violation has now been changed to "15.64.260 no parking anytime". On return to the street, I have verified that the sign posted says "No Stopping Anytime".

    I have been trying online to clarify whether this is in fact a parking, or moving violation? From what I understand in my research, for a moving violation the officer would have to respond in writing for my trial by mail, but for a parking violation they don't. So it makes a difference what the actual violation is.

    You are probably asking yourself---if you stopped in a no stopping zone, why are you not just paying the ticket? The answer to that is that I genuinely believe that the single posted sign is insufficient--after driving on this dead end street with a field on one side, and two schools on the other for an entire school year, I never once saw the sign, nor did any of the other parents I know. And judging by the fact that literally a hundred or more cars stop there every school day, I'm assuming that most if not all of those people can't see the sign either. It's a long street, with only one sign in front of a tree at the far end--I mean like 30-40 car lengths down at the other end. My research has indicated that violations of posted signs are not enforceable unless they are "sufficiently legible to be seen by an ordinarily observant person." I will be fighting the ticket on these grounds, but would still like to know whether it is in fact a parking violation.

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Regardless of whether it is "no parking" or "no standing", it's a "parking" violation.

    What color is the curb painted? Because with or without a sign, that can make a BIG difference as well.

    I'm going to take a wild guess and say it is painted RED!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Regardless of whether it is "no parking" or "no standing", it's a "parking" violation.

    What color is the curb painted? Because with or without a sign, that can make a BIG difference as well.

    I'm going to take a wild guess and say it is painted RED!

    Well, your guess would be WRONG---the curb is not painted at all----if it had been painted RED, I would have observed that, and never stopped there. I'm in my 40's and have never had a ticket--speeding, moving violation, or parking. I am a very observant person, and I respect and adhere to the laws of this country. I do expect public authorities to make a sufficient and appropriate posting of any driving restrictions that I need to be aware of. I'm sure there are a lot of people on these boards who are deserving of whatever citation they have received, and are just here looking for a way out--but maybe you should be made aware that not everyone fits into that category.

    I have noticed, driving about town, that other "No Stopping Anytime" zones have 5 signs posted for the same area of street length, compared to this street which has only 1 sign. This judgement is determined by the fact that other streets with the same zoning have one street light spaced per "no stopping" sign---the street I was cited on has 5 street lights, and only 1 sign. The street lights are spaced according to a standard spacing guideline--so it is a valid way to compare. The no stopping zone for this one sign is the entire street length. I think that this area is intended as a revenue generator for the city.

    I also have a problem with the fact that after finding out about the no stopping zone on this street, I observed that the parking enforcement guy was out there snapping photos of all the cars---not out writing up tickets and presenting them--just snapping away so that he could maximize the number of tickets to write up later. On my ticket he wrote "drove away" as if he had made an attempt to give me the ticket, and I drove away to avoid it---which couldn't be further from the truth.

    In addition to fighting this ticket, I am also planning on pushing the city to have additional signs posted on this street, and to have the curb painted. We only get snow about once every five years so the curb is pretty much visible year round---so having the curb painted would go a long way towards making this no stopping zone readily apparent.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Quote Quoting 3kidsncats
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    Well, your guess would be WRONG---the curb is not painted at all----if it had been painted RED, I would have observed that, and never stopped there. I'm in my 40's and have never had a ticket--speeding, moving violation, or parking. I am a very observant person, and I respect and adhere to the laws of this country. I do expect public authorities to make a sufficient and appropriate posting of any driving restrictions that I need to be aware of. I'm sure there are a lot of people on these boards who are deserving of whatever citation they have received, and are just here looking for a way out--but maybe you should be made aware that not everyone fits into that category.
    Its funny how you go on ranting and yet later, in the same post, you stated: I am also planning on pushing the city to have additional signs posted on this street, and to have the curb painted... thereby further legitimizing my guess/question.

    You posted a question that is lacked any information regarding the color of the curb, the municipality wherein you were cited or the ordinance/code you were cited for violating, thereby leaving the door wide open for either an incomplete answer OR some sort of statement that mentioned the normal requirement (either a sign or a red curb); I opted for the latter. There was no presumption of guilt or innocence as I am not preview to all the details. You just didn't like my suggestion because it did not fit within what you wanted to hear!

    Quote Quoting 3kidsncats
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    I think that this area is intended as a revenue generator for the city.
    Part of an even BIGGER conspiracy, I am sure.

    Quote Quoting 3kidsncats
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    I observed that the parking enforcement guy was out there snapping photos of all the cars---not out writing up tickets and presenting them--just snapping away so that he could maximize the number of tickets to write up later.
    Nothing wrong with that. If he personally witnessed people parking in violation of a posted sign then he is free to document that however he chooses and mail the citations later. The city where I live will even go as far as mailing that picture with the citation... That way there is no "I wasn't there", "it wasn't me", I wasn't parked" or "how come it was mailed to me and not put on my car"...

    Quote Quoting 3kidsncats
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    In addition to fighting this ticket, I am also planning on pushing the city to have additional signs posted on this street, and to have the curb painted. We only get snow about once every five years so the curb is pretty much visible year round---so having the curb painted would go a long way towards making this no stopping zone readily apparent.
    Well that's very civil of you... Good luck with it!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    I agree, we need to know what city this is so that we can see what the code section actually says. What the purported title is means nothing. They could title the section most anything, but it is not that short title that means anything, it is the written statute that you will be held to.

    - Carl

  6. #6
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Its funny how you go on ranting and yet later, in the same post, you stated: I am also planning on pushing the city to have additional signs posted on this street, and to have the curb painted... thereby further legitimizing my guess/question.

    You posted a question that is lacked any information regarding the color of the curb, the municipality wherein you were cited or the ordinance/code you were cited for violating, thereby leaving the door wide open for either an incomplete answer OR some sort of statement that mentioned the normal requirement (either a sign or a red curb); I opted for the latter. There was no presumption of guilt or innocence as I am not preview to all the details. You just didn't like my suggestion because it did not fit within what you wanted to hear!



    Part of an even BIGGER conspiracy, I am sure.


    Nothing wrong with that. If he personally witnessed people parking in violation of a posted sign then he is free to document that however he chooses and mail the citations later. The city where I live will even go as far as mailing that picture with the citation... That way there is no "I wasn't there", "it wasn't me", I wasn't parked" or "how come it was mailed to me and not put on my car"...


    Well that's very civil of you... Good luck with it!
    I really have to say---I came here looking for assistance--I tried to write as concise a description of my problem as possible giving what information I thought would be helpful---I'm sorry if I didn't include all of the info that you would have liked. I was not expecting snide comments. Nor do I feel I am deserving of them. A simple request for more info would have sufficed.

    Your initial comment about the curb color was NOT simply a request for more information---it was a judgement that I must be too self-centered to notice that the curb was painted red, and therefore I certainly must be deserving of the citation. I agree that the curb should be painted--but I thought the end portion of your comment about curb color was obnoxious in its tone and inference. I have absolutely no problem with a courteous request for any additional information--or even a courteous comment that points out maybe I'm in the wrong--rude I'm not so keen on. But I can see from many of your comments in your most recent reply to me that I can expect nothing but rudeness.

    California Law (my state was noted in the initial post) does not require the curb to be painted--it only requires that either the signage or curb painting be "sufficiently legible to be seen by an ordinarily observant person"----which it is not. I DID note in my initial post that there is a single sign posted. I drove past the street yesterday, and saw two cars parked there--I guess they didn't see the sign either.

    I live in Palmdale, California; a city which has adopted the Los Angeles County traffic code. I did give the code violation number in my initial post--apparently you didn't notice it. I'm sorry you feel I am ranting---I thought this was a forum to discuss and explain one's situation in an effort to find helpful advice and information. Please don't feel you need to bother trying to assist me in any way--I'd rather not waste your time.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    If using the L.A. County Code, then here is the offense:

    15.64.260 Parking prohibitions for specific places--Board authority.
    Whenever the board finds that the parking of vehicles at all or certain hours of the day upon any portion of a highway or of a private street which is open to the public constitutes a traffic hazard or impedes the free flow of traffic, or both, the commissioner shall erect signs stating that on such portion of such highway or such private street parking is prohibited at all or certain hours of the day. (Ord. 6544 Ch. 3 Art. 3, § 3109, 1954.)


    Provided the signs meet the requirements of the CVC and the MUTCD then the citation would be valid.

    Whether signage was sufficient, I cannot say as I cannot see the roadway. Were you parked past the sign? Before the sign? Between two signs? How far apart were the signs? Was their language that included "to end of street" or something similar? There are a lot of questions that would require answers.

    - Carl

  8. #8
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    I agree, we need to know what city this is so that we can see what the code section actually says. What the purported title is means nothing. They could title the section most anything, but it is not that short title that means anything, it is the written statute that you will be held to.

    - Carl
    Thanks Carl---if you have any info that would be helpful, I certainly would appreciate it. I'm in Palmdale, which adopted the Los Angeles County Traffic code. The code number on the ticket was 15.64.260 I think if you've read the previous posts, you're probably up on what color the curb is, and what signs are posted

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post

    Provided the signs meet the requirements of the CVC and the MUTCD then the citation would be valid.

    Whether signage was sufficient, I cannot say as I cannot see the roadway. Were you parked past the sign? Before the sign? Between two signs? How far apart were the signs? Was their language that included "to end of street" or something similar? There are a lot of questions that would require answers.

    - Carl
    Sorry, I didn't see this post, before I posted a minute ago. It is my belief, that the sign does not meet the MUTCD requirement. I will be photographing the street once school starts, at the time the ticket was issued, so that one can see what I do, when I'm on that street.

    I have a photo of the street while empty---much easier to see the sign when it's empty, but still not sufficient in my opinion. I don't know where I was stopped as I was unaware that I was being ticketed. I found out a week later when the ticket arrived in the mail--never was parked in the sense of exiting my vehicle, or remaining at the location for more than a minute or two, only pulled over and my child got into the vehicle, then pulled away. I've heard conflicting info that you can load/unload passengers in a no parking zone, as long as you don't leave the vehicle, but the sign says "no stopping" not "no parking".

    There is only one sign, with an double pointed arrow, at one end of the street. There is no way to determine, from the sign, where the zone starts, or ends. I'll upload a photo and post a link, so you can see. Keeping in mind that the photo shows an empty street---when I was ticketed (and the only times I generally have been on this street) it was after school when the entire curb is filled with parked cars (even tho there is the one sign), kids are walking out into the street to get into cars that have stopped in the middle of the street, and generally a sense of driving chaos. I frankly have always paid more attention to avoiding running someone over, and trying not to get hit by people as they zip out from the curb, than to the sidewalk where the sign is posted.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Quote Quoting 3kidsncats
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    There is only one sign, with an double pointed arrow, at one end of the street.
    That means "no parking" or "no stopping" (depending on what the sign states) for the entire block unless there is another sign that states "end no parking zone" or "End no stopping zone"!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: No Stopping Anytime - Parking or Moving Violation

    Here are the photos of the street, from the beginning of the street, heading towards the cul-de-sac where the street ends. The sign is posted between the last two streetlights near the cul-de-sac. I have regularly pulled over up and down this street, and have no idea where I actually was when I was ticketed. The address on the ticket is for the school, which comprises the entire street.

    I am truly interested in whether you think the signage is sufficient? I'm not able to take pictures of how crowded it is when I would normally be on it, until next week.








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