Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 111
  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,395

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Quote Quoting BOR
    View Post
    I know there are exceptions, my post was not all inclusive, just a general statement, and if it is a minor in a home permitted to drink in the presence of parents, which is permitted in my state, but can't outside, as one example.
    I was only clarifying the comment:"Once inside, legally, they can arrest for anything they could outside. " - that is all. The "anything" was over reaching, and I know what you intended, but I just wanted to clarify that such was not an absolute.

    Oh, and for the record, in my state a minor can often drink alcohol inside their own home even without their parents' permission or supervision. And we would have to use elements of the Welfare and Institutions Code to justify detaining the minor's friend or friends if they, too, were drinking unless there were 10 or more, or having a party where a fee or admission was being paid.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,835

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    I was only clarifying the comment:"Once inside, legally, they can arrest for anything they could outside. " - that is all. The "anything" was over reaching, and I know what you intended, but I just wanted to clarify that such was not an absolute.


    - Carl

    Got ya bro!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,734

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Quote Quoting msjake
    View Post
    He was NOT arrested for failure to identify, he was arrested for disorderly conduct. I believe those charges have been dropped.
    The police can arrest you anywhere if necessary.
    the news has reported they have been dropped.


    Carl, was the report made public already or was this an "inside job"?

    anyway, if the events as stated by the officers is correct, Gates is the racist. If reports are true, I see nothing wrong with what the officer did.

    I think Obama owes Crowley an apology and should whack his friend Gates with a newspaper.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,395

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    the news has reported they have been dropped.
    Which is pretty standard fare for such arrests as the matter tends to be handled by the arrest.

    Carl, was the report made public already or was this an "inside job"?
    The report was made available to the public with specific identifying information (birthdates and such) redacted. Follow the link above.

    anyway, if the events as stated by the officers is correct, Gates is the racist. If reports are true, I see nothing wrong with what the officer did.
    Ditto.

    I think Obama owes Crowley an apology and should whack his friend Gates with a newspaper.
    Obama will NOT apologize, and I think he just stepped on a HUGE constituency. Law enforcement labor unions will now be running away from support of Obama because of this. The condemnations have already begun and the Whitehouse is backpedaling. While rank and file cops tend to be conservative and vote that way, law enforcement labor unions tend to support Democrats because they are, well, labor unions. This is causing even this support to erode already.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  5. #15

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Should Crowley have been able to enter Gates's home even with an open door absent an invitation by Gates? Was the report of the possible B&E exigent circumstances?

    Clearly within Gates's own home he has the right to exhibit loud and tumultuous behavior:

    -----------------------------------------

    Commonwealth v. Mulvey
    57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 (March 14, 2003)
    Police presence in and of itself does not by itself turn an otherwise purely private outburst into disorderly conduct.

    The defendant was charged with disorderly conduct for yelling and pacing on private property that was set back from the road in a secluded area. There was no one around at the time except police officers. While the statute requires that the disturbance be such that it had or was likely to have an impact upon people in an area accessible to the public, the presence of police officers alone will not suffice to prove the public element.

    In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Crowley though created a stop and look situation by telling the dispatcher to keep sending cars and then baited Gates to exit his home imo where the disorderly statute in MA may apply. I wish there were wider angle shots of the scene to determine how many police were there and how many people were there.

    Crowley also lied or at least misrepresented the 911 call. The caller said two men one possibly hispanic with suitcases while Crowley maintained in the police report that the caller said two black men with backpacks.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    anyway, if the events as stated by the officers is correct, Gates is the racist.
    By what plausible definition of the word "racist"? We're now going to accuse somebody of being a racist if they believe somebody was racist against them, and we happen to disagree?
    Quote Quoting jk
    If reports are true, I see nothing wrong with what the officer did.
    I think this analysis is pretty good at identifying what both Gates and the officer did wrong.

    I think the post above this one was derived from the Volokh Conspiracy, but it also appears quite clear that, even assuming the jury bought 100% of the arresting officer's version of events, Gates could not actually have been convicted of disorderly conduct. So how would the arrest be defensible?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,734

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    MorningCoffee;337106]Should Crowley have been able to enter Gates's home even with an open door absent an invitation by Gates? Was the report of the possible B&E exigent circumstances?

    Clearly within Gates's own home he has the right to exhibit loud and tumultuous behavior:
    yep, he sure does. That is why Gates was not arrested until he took his tirade into the public view.

    -----------------------------------------
    Commonwealth v. Mulvey
    57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 (March 14, 2003)
    Police presence in and of itself does not by itself turn an otherwise purely private outburst into disorderly conduct.
    it became public once they exited the house and were being viewed by passers by. Read the report. It specifically refers to the reaction of the observers.

    The defendant was charged with disorderly conduct for yelling and pacing on private property that was set back from the road in a secluded area.
    and there is the rub. This house was not secluded.

    There was no one around at the time except police officers. While the statute requires that the disturbance be such that it had or was likely to have an impact upon people in an area accessible to the public, the presence of police officers alone will not suffice to prove the public element.
    and again, there were several observers to the situation.

    In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.
    all good and well, if it were applicable, which it isn't.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Crowley though created a stop and look situation by telling the dispatcher to keep sending cars and then baited Gates to exit his home imo where the disorderly statute in MA may apply. I wish there were wider angle shots of the scene to determine how many police were there and how many people were there.
    quantity of observers is irrelevant. and baited? Gates did not have to follow. The exchange was over. Crowley was satisfied that Gates was legally in the residence. Gates let his racial prejudice get the best of him and he simply couldn't resist berating the officer.

    Crowley also lied or at least misrepresented the 911 call. The caller said two men one possibly hispanic with suitcases while Crowley maintained in the police report that the caller said two black men with backpacks.
    You might want to read the report again. It does not attribute the notification of the race of the suspects to the 911 call. Crowley actually attributes the knowledge to the quick discussion he had with the caller once he has arrived on scene. The caller disputes this version but still, the labeling of the suspects as blacks is not attributed to any information gained via the 911 call.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    28,906

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    Here's the Volokh post, which really does indicate that the charge was going nowhere.
    Defendant who did not physically resist his arrest arising out of a domestic violence incident could not be convicted of disorderly conduct based solely on his loud and angry tirade, which included profanities, directed at police officers as he was being escorted to police cruiser, even if spectators gathered to watch defendant; defendant did not make any threats or engage in violence, and his speech did not constitute fighting words. Com. v. Mallahan (2008) 72 Mass.App.Ct. 1103, 889 N.E.2d 77, 2008 WL 2404550.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    That case is on the Middlesex County AG's website and the opinions and questions are my own.

    Any feedback on whether Crowley entered the Gates home legally? Was the open door an invitation?

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    I think the post above this one was derived from the Volokh Conspiracy, but it also appears quite clear that, even assuming the jury bought 100% of the arresting officer's version of events, Gates could not actually have been convicted of disorderly conduct. So how would the arrest be defensible?

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,734

    Default Re: Henry Louis Gates Arrested for Failure to Identify

    =Mr. Knowitall;337111]By what plausible definition of the word "racist"? We're now going to accuse somebody of being a racist if they believe somebody was racist against them, and we happen to disagree?
    Uh, maybe by Merriam-Websters definition:


    Main Entry:
    rac·ism
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
    Function:
    noun
    Date:
    1933
    1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
    2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
    Granted, it was Gates that was accusing Crowley of being racist but since there is no evidence to support that any of Crowleys actions were racially motivated, Gates is the person who actually displayed the racist behavior. He is the one who decided that race was an issue, not the facts.

    If Crowley had acted in a racist manner, I would agree with your point. I see nothing that indicates Crowley took any action based on the fact that Gates is black.


    I think this analysis is pretty good at identifying what both Gates and the officer did wrong.

    I think the post above this one was derived from the Volokh Conspiracy, but it also appears quite clear that, even assuming the jury bought 100% of the arresting officer's version of events, Gates could not actually have been convicted of disorderly conduct. So how would the arrest be defensible?
    If Crowley applied the law as he understood the law, his actions are defensible. If Crowley believed Gates did act in a tumultuous manner and the observers reacted as specified within the statute, in Crowleys opinion, then Crowley acted properly and was justified in arresting Gates. It would still not allow Gates to be convicted since Crowley was mistaken as to the elements of the law, or actually the definitions of the terminology used within the statute.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: St Louis Photo-Ticket
    By MannyMcphee in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-12-2010, 06:47 PM
  2. Sentencing: Arrested For Failure To Appear, What Will Happen In Court?
    By seth112 in forum Criminal Procedure
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-21-2008, 08:10 PM
  3. Medical Malpractice: Possible Malpractice At Henry Ford's Hospital
    By marquita188 in forum Malpractice Law
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-02-2007, 06:50 PM
  4. Getting Fired: Wrongful termination in St. Louis, Missouri
    By jaejae in forum Employment and Labor
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-15-2006, 06:34 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources