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  1. #1
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    Jul 2009
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    Default "Paced" Speeding Ticket in Pennsylvania - Do I Have a Chance

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: PA

    ok, so I was caught in a speed trap admittedly by the officer.

    there was a car stopped by a cop ahead of me and to my right a road where a cop was coming to a stop(he was moving). as I passed him he turned behind me(I was already hitting my brakes because I couldn't get around the cop in front of me(I came to a complete stop). after a few seconds I went around the cop and was realized the cop behind me had his flashers on. I pulled to the curb and was astonished to hear I got a ticket.

    the speed limit was 25(although its a major road and the limit is ludicrous. it should at least be 35 or 40). He said he "clocked" me going 44.

    admittedly I was going about 45 when I passed the cop, but of course ill never tell the judge that.

    IDK what method he used to "clock" me, but on the ticket he checked "other."

    here is a little picture of the scenario:



    My argument is this:
    1. how could you clock me with any equipment while you were moving.
    2. there is no way you paced me as I was stopping by the time you were behind me.
    3. the limit on the road is way too low, I wasn't moving a a dangerous speed/there was a car ahead of me/ the flow of traffic is the safest speed/$160 is way too much for my speed.

    so what do you think. should I just pay, or do I have a shot?

    edit: there is a "speed equipment serial number"listed as 522
    a "station equip tested" as EL - 7
    and a "date equip tested" as 5/19/09

    so maybe I wasn't paced? does anyone know what else they could use?

  2. #2
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    Jul 2009
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    I actually just learned that this was an enradd stop.
    IDK if I can build a defense to that. seems pretty solid.
    I was follwing a car by like 10 feet, idk if that helps my case at all.

    things look bleak however, any ideas?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    1. how could you clock me with any equipment while you were moving.
    Unless and until you can find out how he measured your speed, I would leave that question out. Radar for example can measure your vehicle's speed regardless of whether the officer is parked or in motion.

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    2. there is no way you paced me as I was stopping by the time you were behind me.
    Based on the fact that he listed a "unit #" on the citation, that would tell me that he DIDN'T pace you... So that question is out.

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    3. the limit on the road is way too low,
    If it is properly posted, then that is not a reasonable defense. it is not up to you to decide if its too low or too high.

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    I wasn't moving a a dangerous speed
    If you were driving at 44mph in 25mph, depending on what statute you were charged with violation, that might not be a good argument. Can you post the statute that you were charged with (number or description)?

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    there was a car ahead of me
    A "they were speeding too" defense does not work either...

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    the flow of traffic is the safest speed
    If that were true then that speed limit sign would have said "flow of traffic" instead of "25mph"...

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    $160 is way too much for my speed.
    Your guilt or innocense os not based on the fine amount for your alleged violation...

    What you probably should do is to a discovery request... Find out what sort of device the officer used in measuring your speed. Once you do that, come back here and post what you came up with and you might get a few helpful pointers. In my opinion, none of what you've posted so far will help you any...

  4. #4
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    Jul 2009
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    like I said it was ENRADD.

    which as I understand it is two strips on the road that catches my avg. speed by finding the interval of time that I was between them. This seems pretty unbeatable to me.

    I certainly was speeding, but I just find it insane that I am getting $160 fine for what I was doing. I mean the point of the police is to "protect and serve" the people. Who is this protecting and who are they serving? This speed trap had the sole purpose of creating revenue for the police station, I was not doing anything dangerous and having to pay $160 is just wrong in my opinion.

    Is there any negative to pleading not guilty and just getting beat in court?
    I mean I would rather go and pray that they try to cut a deal or that the officer doesn't show if the only repricussion is that I am in the same position I am in now.

    Oh and the violation was "PA VC 3362 a1.2"

    on the ticket it says "PAMVC" but I assume there is no difference

  5. #5
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    Key West, FL
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    First, CA allows "paced" speeding tickets. You just need to do research on the internet to find ways to defend against such a ticket. There are a number of sites with useful information.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    please can anyone help me? I have to give a plea within the next three days. I really need to know if there is anything wrong with pleading not guilty if I am sure I will lose.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    please can anyone help me?
    Pennsylvania Statutes and Consolidated Statutes
    Title 75 Pa.C.S.A. Vehicles
    Part III. Operation of Vehicles
    Chapter 33. Rules of the Road in General
    Subchapter F. Speed Restrictions (Refs & Annos)
    >>§ 3362. Maximum speed limits

    (a) General rule.--Except when a special hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with section 3361 (relating to driving vehicle at safe speed), the limits specified in this section or established under this subchapter shall be maximum lawful speeds and no person shall drive a vehicle at a speed in excess of the following maximum limits:
    (1) 35 miles per hour in any urban district.
    (1.1) 65 miles per hour for all vehicles on freeways where the department has posted a 65-miles-per-hour speed limit.
    (1.2) 25 miles per hour in a residence district, if the highway:
    (i) is not a numbered traffic route; and
    (ii) is functionally classified by the department as a local highway.
    (2) 55 miles per hour in other locations.
    (3) Any other maximum speed limit established under this subchapter.
    (b) Posting of speed limit.--
    (1) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1), (1.2) or (3) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected in accordance with regulations adopted by the department which regulations shall require posting at the beginning and end of each speed zone and at intervals not greater than one-half mile.
    (2) No maximum speed limit established under subsection (a)(1.1) shall be effective unless posted on fixed or variable official traffic-control devices erected after each interchange on the portion of highway on which the speed limit is in effect and wherever else the department shall determine.


    Looks to me like you were cited for allegedly exceeding the maxinum posted speed limit as opposed to driving at a speed that in unreasonable, unsafe or prudent. Assuming the speed limit signs are posted as per the regulatory standard that I quoted above, and aside from attacking the accuracy of ENRAD, I don't know if any other defense will work. Personally, I am not familiar with ENRAD as it is not used in my State; so to present you with a valid argument as to how you can defend against it, I would be making things up.

    Do some research... Read a few websites and find out about its accuracy and faults, if any. And make a decision accordingly.

    Quote Quoting B-80
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    I really need to know if there is anything wrong with pleading not guilty if I am sure I will lose.
    Just keep in mind that it is the state's burden to prove that you were speeding as opposed to you needing to prove that you weren't; however, to approach it from the stand point of “the speed limit is too low, so I wasn't speeding”... By saying that, you are admitting guilt and incriminating yourself. Furthermore, arguing that the fine is too high, is in no way a reasonable defense.

    Try plea bargaining your case to a lesser charge, maybe a non-moving violation or one with a lower speed... Try going to court before your appearance date to see how things are usually handled there and to learn about the procedures... Call the court clerk and ask them if pleading not guilty means you'd have to pay any additional court costs. Go to the court's website and read about traffic tickets... Call an attorney in your area and one who is familiar with the local procedures. Many attorneys offer a free consultations.

    Sorry I could give you any more definitive answers, but there's plenty that YOU can do to "help yourself".

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Speeding Ticket, Pa, "Paced" Do I Have a Chance

    Here's some info you can use...

    234 Pa. Code Rule 403.*Contents of Citation.

    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/23...ter1/s109.html

    ENRADD & possible defenses see page 8 and beyond

    ENRADD and how to beat it

    Some more info

    PA - Case law

    Here is some PA case law citation on ENRADD

    PA Case law on ENRADD

    Hope this helps...

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Sorry I could give you any more definitive answers...
    Oops... I meant "Sorry I COULDN'T give you any more definitive answers..."

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