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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    4

    Default Charge for Paint

    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: California

    We lived in a house for 25 months. The house was not painted before our move and we never got to see the unit unoccupied until we moved in. We have photos showing writing on the wall and dirty baseboards. The property management company offered to buy us Magic Erasers so we could clean them ourselves but we said "No, thank you".

    During the pre-moveout inspection (the house was completely empty [we had moved out] when that occurred; we handed over the keys the following day) we were told we would be charged only $60 for cleaning out of $2,500 deposit. I have this in an email, saying the unit has no damage beyond normal wear and tear.

    Today, exactly 20 days after the lease ended we got a letter saying that they have withheld $200 for painting costs. They claim they did it because of marks on the wall (due to couch!). The house was last painted 5 years ago, and during the pre move out inspection the property management person noted that the unit would have to be painted at the owner's cost.

    I think this is unlawful according to California Civil Code Section 1950.5 (Reference: Brown, Warner and Portman, the California Landlord's Law Book, Vol. 1: Rights & Responsibilities, pages 20/15-20/16 (NOLO Press 2005).) and have told them so. Am I right?

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    1,948

    Thumbs up Re: Charge for Paint

    cut and pasted from
    http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...-deposit.shtml

    Repainting walls

    One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the tenant's security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the length of the tenant's stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years or more.)

    Length of stay

    2 or more years

    no deduction

    Using this approach, if the tenant lived in the rental unit for two years or more, the tenant could not be charged for any repainting costs, no matter how dirty the walls were. 224



    I also think you are right - not the landlord.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Charge for Paint

    Thanks 525601minutes, the source you cite is exactly the one I have cited to the property management company. I hope they see the light

    It would give me great happiness to go to small claims court against them as they've given us enough pain and I would love to stick it back to them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    4

    Default Re: Charge for Paint

    Quote Quoting 525601minutes
    View Post
    cut and pasted from
    http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/l...-deposit.shtml

    Repainting walls

    One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the tenant's security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the length of the tenant's stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years or more.)

    Length of stay

    2 or more years

    no deduction

    Using this approach, if the tenant lived in the rental unit for two years or more, the tenant could not be charged for any repainting costs, no matter how dirty the walls were. 224



    I also think you are right - not the landlord.
    Thank you. The property management company is now threatening us, saying many judges consider normal life of paint to be 5 years and that we would be punished in the court of law and would have to pay more. However, we do have a response from the property management in the days after our move-in. I quote:

    "Overall the unit had not had any touch-up painting. There were scuff marks, dirty hand prints, pencil & crayon marks in almost all rooms. (Pencil in living room wall that adjoins staircase. Pencil & crayon marks in both children rooms ...

    Unit had not been detailed cleaned. There was grime on the railings of the stair well and also on door frames & front door below & around handle."

    I think those quotes make it very clear that the unit was not painted anytime near when when we moved in, which further strengthens our case. What do you all think?

    On another point, PM company is threatening us and saying we should be grateful we didn't have to pay $1,500 for painting the whole house. They have told us the owner has a negative cash flow with the house. He actually flew in from 500 miles away and purportedly painted the whole house (we were not told or anything). They are saying they had to paint the whole house because we had left a dozen flourescent stars stuck with putty. During the final moveout inspection PM told us not to worry about them. Before that they said they're free to bring anyone for a showing with no more than 1-hour notice; made phantom appointments (50% of them no one showed up; 25% we were not told the appointment was cancelled) and in general sent us insulting emails.

    I am considering suing them for pain & suffering because of their actions.

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,948

    Arrow Re: Charge for Paint

    They can threaten you until the cows come home.

    cut and pasted from the same source as noted above...

    "Tell the landlord or the landlord's agent why you believe that the deductions from your security deposit are improper. Immediately ask the landlord or agent for a refund of the amount that you believe you're entitled to get back. You can make this request by phone or e-mail, but you should follow it up with a letter. The letter should state the reasons that you believe the deductions are improper, and the amount that you feel should be returned to you. Keep a copy of your letter. It's a good idea to send the letter to the landlord or agent by certified mail and to request a return receipt to prove that the landlord or agent received the letter. Or, you can deliver the letter personally and ask the landlord or agent to acknowledge receipt by signing and dating your copy of the letter.

    If the landlord or agent still doesn't send you the refund that you think you're entitled to receive, try to work out a reasonable compromise that is acceptable to both of you. You also can suggest that the dispute be mediated by a neutral third person or agency (Getting Help From a Third Party.) You can contact one of the agencies listed in Getting Help From a Third Party for assistance. If none of this works, you may want to take legal action (see below).

    What if the landlord doesn't provide a full refund, or a statement of deductions and a refund of amounts not deducted, by the end of the 21-day period as required by law? According to a California Supreme Court decision, the landlord loses the right to keep any of the security deposit and must return the entire deposit to you.202 Even so, it may be difficult for you to get your entire deposit back from the landlord.203 You should contact one of the agencies listed in Getting Help From a Third Party for advice.

    Practically speaking, you have two options if the landlord doesn't honor the 21-day rule. The first step for both is to call and write the landlord to request a refund of your entire security deposit. You can also suggest that the dispute be mediated. If the landlord presents good reasons for keeping some or all of your deposit for a purpose listed above, it's probably wise to enter into a reasonable compromise with the landlord. This is because the other option is difficult and the outcome may be uncertain.

    The other option is to sue the landlord in small claims court for return of your security deposit. However, the landlord then can file a counterclaim against you.In the counterclaim, the landlord can assert a right to make deductions from the deposit, for example, for unpaid rent or for damage to the rental that the landlord alleges that you caused. Both parties then will have to argue to the judge why he or she is entitled to the deposit."


    I don't think you will be able to prove damages as far as your personal pain and suffering. But I also don't think they will be able to prove you owe them $200 (let alone $1500) for wear/tear/grimy walls.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Charge for Paint

    Now the PM company is saying that they disagree with the landlord. They gave it to me in writing. How do courts view it when the landlord and the Property Management Company disagree?

    The PM person I deal with says she has 37 years of work experience in the field and she has gone from threatening us to acting helpless. Probably a good sign.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Charge for Paint

    I am having a similar problem. I am also in a dispute over repainting charges in California. I had been renting for 12 months and extended the lease an additional 12 months. After the 24 months, we had taken an additional 3 days to completely move out (and they charged for the three days too). Because I was there for 24 months and 3 days does this make it possible to receive no deduction at all from the deposit? The PM insists that it would only be the case if I was living at the location for a complete 25 months.

    Also, at the beginning of the portion pertaining to repainting, it sates these are guide lines. Does this mean that it is not civil code even though it is cited in Brown, Warner, and Portman?

    Thank you for your consideration,

    Matthew

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