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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    11

    Default Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: North Carolina

    I have two questions related to this citation.

    -What are the laws for having to produce ID within a private residence?

    -Is this something that would normally be thrown out by just pleading not guilty?

    I was a guest at a gathering at someones apartment. I had not met the owners before the night. An officer knocked on the door while I was in a bedroom browsing the internet on a laptop. There were no more people at the gathering at this time. The officer 'barreled his way into' the apartment (as described by one of the owners) with very unspecified consent. The officer comes into the dark bedroom and immediately asks for identification. I say something to the effect of 'I am not sure of north carolina law for producing identification in an instance such as this' (I say this very politely making sure to use sir etc..). The officer sternly states 'have you ever heard of the term impeding an investigation'. I say no I have not, but I will take note that this is the reason you are asking for identification. I give him my ID.
    The officer asks if I have been drinking. I say 'I can't discuss legal matters without a lawyer', again in a non rude manner. Officer goes into the living room and speaks to the owners. I have a mental note of that entire conversation but do not think its important to mention it here. The owners said they had no idea who I was (obviously panicked) and made no mention of alcohol consumption. The officer hands me my ticket and that was the end of it. No breathalizer, no contact with the officer beyond me sitting with my face illuminated by a laptop screen in a dark room.

    Thank you very much for any advice that anyone could offer.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Behind a Desk
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    98,846

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Apparently the officer differs with your assessment of what was going on in the house. You, of course, didn't help yourself by choosing to be difficult. We weren't there; my guess is the officer's version is going to be quite different from yours. Get the police report, or have your lawyer get it, and find out what the officer says happened.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Well, I basically chose not to risk incriminating myself which supposedly is not legally evidence and should not be seen as a disrespectful gesture (as far as I know, under law). I was very respectful and was never even asked to get out of the office chair that I was sitting in. Every piece of advice I had ever heard from lawyer types has been. "To never speak to police investigating you without legal representation. Even if you are innocent you can be convicted."

    I mean, the story of events that I wrote down was EXACTLY what happened, almost to the letter. I said two or three sentences to the officer. "I'm not sure about north carolina law for having to identify myself" and "I can't answer any questions without a lawyer". The only thing that I am not sure about is what happened outside the front door of the apartment. As in, if the officer asked something like 'do you mind if I take a look around' instead of just walking in. ---I guess my question here would be, what could the officer write on his police report that would incriminate me? How is his account of events more relevant than my own? After all, everyone is under the same oath to tell the truth. Isn't it more up to the state to prove my guilt than for me to prove my innocence?

    Hypothetically, if I choose to plead the fifth on the question of 'were you drinking'. That is not evidence of drinking, correct? It would be up to the officer/judge to prove that I was drinking that night correct?

    EDIT:
    And yes, there was alcohol present in the apartment. Cleaned up beer pong table etc... My argument here is that there is no evidence that I was there to drink alcohol. So basically the only thing that could possibly stick from the officers description would be 'Attending a nuisance party'. What the heck does that even mean? Is that not saying that I am legally responsible for staying away from loud gatherings? That has to go against some form of simple constitutional law, correct?

    As you can see I'm pretty passionate and highly annoyed by this whole thing.

    I'm just trying to do some research on the net before finding a lawyer, I mean no disrespect.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,419

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Keeping quiet is good advice,sometimes ppl can over do it. You could of handed him your id and just say i was no drinking. Atleast just handed him your id b.c you made your self look suspicous or annoy the cop by not showing any id.Then giving your respones.

    A lot of states require you to show id if asked,I think.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    As far as wikipedia states, NC isn't one of those. I think it may just apply to random checks on the street. Thats why I just made sure to ask. I don't even know if an officer is supposed to advise you of the law if you ask.

    I just kept quiet to avoid any possible line of questioning. I'm sure the next question following "I have not been drinking" would have been "You mean to tell me that you weren't drinking when this place smells like beer etc etc...stand up....your shirt smells like beer... blah blah.... still get a ticket+hypocritical lecture"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Just figured I'd update this for other peoples reference.

    I ended up getting a lawyer. Charges were dropped after one court date extension. No court costs or other bs.

    I wish this site or other sites would actually give people advice on what to do when they go to court. There is no way of knowing what would have happened if I hadn't paid a lawyer, but I feel like the outcome would have been different just because I don't posess a law degree and don't know my way around court.

    Lesson: Never talk to the police.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Even with lots of experience, people on message boards CAN'T give hyper accurate advice. We get ONE side of the story - not ALL sides. We get one point of view, no copies of police reports, can't question other witnesses, etc. Trying to give anything concrete wouldn't be doing you a favor - it would prevent you from doing what you did; getting an attorney, who CAN access all these things and work towards a desired outcome for you. No matter how good the board, no matter how good or experienced or detailed the answers, they can only be in generalities. The internet is never going to be a substitute for having an attorney working on your case with two eyes looking at actual reports, taking actual statements, etc.

    In other words, sure, we can bake you a cake with no flour, no sugar, and no eggs - but more often than not, even if it looks nice, it'll taste like crap (and will be similarly representative of what any specific case might turn out like).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    I'm just saying it would be nice to have concise 'looked up' answers for things that I asked earlier. Like... "what are the laws in nc about requiring you to show id?".... so that when the cop tells me on the stand that he asked for my id and I was hesitant I could say "well according to article blah blah blah I don't have to show it to you under those particular circumstances".

    Just something small like, "you were not under investigation because he did not posess a warrant" (don't know if thats true, just an example)... just simple 'out of the book' stuff. I remember trying to dig around google for so long about specific laws for hours and there is simply nothing there.
    Its especially true with these small MIP cases. There are no witnesses, its just the judge, the officer, and you. Not many sides to the story. I don't exactly know what the lawyer did, but as far as I'm aware he just talked to the DA and the officer. I honestly feel that the only thing I paid for was to have someone with more authority than a 20 year old kid walk in there and say the exact same thing to them that I would have said.

    No real way to tell tho... in the end I'm just glad it worked out. However, the point remains that I'm out of $700 because some asshole cop decided to flex his muscles in a completely immoral and unprofessional manner. (pardon the language)

    I would really like to know things about what I can and can't call bs on when an officer questions me. As far as showing identification or other basic rights. There are very few references out there for this type of thing.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,835

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Quote Quoting ytrew
    View Post
    I'm just saying it would be nice to have concise 'looked up' answers for things that I asked earlier. Like... "what are the laws in nc about requiring you to show id?".... so that when the cop tells me on the stand that he asked for my id and I was hesitant I could say "well according to article blah blah blah I don't have to show it to you under those particular circumstances".


    I would really like to know things about what I can and can't call bs on when an officer questions me. As far as showing identification or other basic rights. There are very few references out there for this type of thing.

    As the officer stated, such refusal to show ID, in THIS case, could be impeding an investigation, etc.

    If you were approached at this party, and the officer had a reason to believe you to be underage, yes, you are required to show ID.

    IF, IF, you are talking about the so called "stop and identify" laws, according to Wiki, no NC does not have one, but that is not to say your local jurisdiction does not. True, this was on the street case law, but in a private residence, it matters not, IF, you are under investigation, as in this case.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Attending a Nuisance Party, Underage Consumption

    Quote Quoting BOR
    View Post
    As the officer stated, such refusal to show ID, in THIS case, could be impeding an investigation, etc.

    If you were approached at this party, and the officer had a reason to believe you to be underage, yes, you are required to show ID.

    IF, IF, you are talking about the so called "stop and identify" laws, according to Wiki, no NC does not have one, but that is not to say your local jurisdiction does not. True, this was on the street case law, but in a private residence, it matters not, IF, you are under investigation, as in this case.
    Ok, thank you very much, this is exactly what I was looking for a while back.

    Another question if you don't mind. What exactly defines an investigation? Couldn't an officer say you are under investigation while you are just walking down a street for something that you have no idea about (since we don't have a 'stop and identify' law in nc)?

    And if he is investigating 'underage drinking' isn't it up to him to prove that the person being investigated has been drinking before trying to assess if they are under age and not vice versa?

    Hypothetically... Would a valid response to 'have you heard of the term impeding an investigation' been 'what am I under investigation for'.... Officer: "Underage drinking" Me:"how do you know I was drinking//I have not been drinking" Officer: "take this breathalizer" Me: "I don't consent to searches etc..."

    EDIT:: I'm not trying to say I would be a smartass to the cop or anything. I'm just saying that I envision his job to be to 'protect and serve' and to apply the law in a moral way. Ex: He would have had to see me holding an open container of alcohol or smelled alcohol on my breath before proceeding to 'investigate' me for underage consumption.

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