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  1. #1
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    Default Police Training and Qualification

    Quote Quoting Arf417
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    The first problem was you even spoke to the police. As you stated in yours and the detective, he is trying to get you to admit to something you didnt do. What they are trained to do. He really could care less if you did it. He just wants to be able to get a conviction. Never ever talk to them!!! If they have evidence like they claim, you would be in jail and charged. They have nothing obviously. Tell them to not contact you anymore and they know where you live if they have evidence that you did do it. They will leave you alone because you are innocent. Another reasons why police are the most hated people. They are not protectors, they are abusers!
    Are you trolling?

    Okay, listen up, Alf:

    You have no personal knowledge to support the second sentence of this claim.

    When I went to cop school 101, I never had this alleged class we all get that tells us to try to convict innocent people. Can you please show me the curriculum in any police academy - federal, state or local - or criminal justice course in any college anywhere in the States which teaches this?

    In short, your post isn't even based, by its own terms, on anecdotal evidence to support your wildly absurd assertions. If this is based upon your personal interaction with one or a few individual police officers, then it's hardly fair (and definitely not logical) to draw from that some general statement applying to all police officers everywhere.

    Hell, I'd be willing to say that I know more cops than you do and I haven't yet run into one who goes to work every day (or even occasionally) with the explicit idea in his/her mind to find ways to bring charges against the innocent. They're usually too busy dealing with the ready supply of people actually breaking the law to have the kind of time to just make stuff up to charge people with. Oh yeah, and they aren't d-bags.

    People usually go into law enforcement out of a sense of duty to their community and a genuine desire to ameliorate the pain victims of crimes actually live with. And as a general proposition, they usually have well-defined moral compasses.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Ashman, is it really called cop school 101 or did you order a book online and call that school? But anyways, to the other person telling me to say thanks because they never know if they will return home, well why not tell yourself thankyou, because you never know if you will either. That is irrelevant. Let's take a look at atlanta police. 1 out of 3 are convicted felons. Hmm.. yah they are def the type of person who you want protecting you huh? Anyways, I stand my ground and it will never change.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Quote Quoting Arf417
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    That is irrelevant. Let's take a look at atlanta police. 1 out of 3 are convicted felons.
    Wrong again. The story is that one in 3 recent academy grads have a "criminal record". Having a felony is an automatic disqualifier per state and federal law - even in Georgia. While it IS shameful that Atlanta might hire people with minor offenses in their past, I am more disturbed at the fact they hired people who had previously failed backgrounds for other factors such as lying on backgrounds.

    Anyways, I stand my ground and it will never change.
    So, you will remain an a$$ and spout erroneous information?

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  4. #4

    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    So a great police officer like yourself is now name calling? yah you are def exemplifying my point. I will not make assumptions since I do not know you, but something tells me your one of the hot head officers who verbally abuse people??? Seem like it.. You can hate me. I really do not care. You would not be the first police officer. Seems like the few times I get arrested, me and my lawyer find things the police did that was uncalled for, and they get in trouble and 2 of them got fired. I love making police officers loose their job. Paid lawyers rock

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Quote Quoting Arf417
    View Post
    So a great police officer like yourself is now name calling?
    There is always a time to take the gloves off ... plus, since I am not at work, I don't have to put up with hateful vitriol from the likes of you.

    If you want to spout hateful opinions, this site has a Banter section for such off topic discussions. They have no place in a thread discussing a legal topic and serve only to distract from the issue the poster is trying to get information on. Aside from the suggestion he not talk to the police even with a lie detector, there was no need for the remainder of the editorial comment.

    I will not make assumptions since I do not know you, but something tells me your one of the hot head officers who verbally abuse people???
    Hardly.

    You can hate me. I really do not care.
    I do not "hate" you - or anyone. Though, your words here speak for themself.

    Seems like the few times I get arrested, me and my lawyer find things the police did that was uncalled for, and they get in trouble and 2 of them got fired. I love making police officers loose their job.
    How come I just find that hard to believe ...

    Perhaps you should stop doing things to get arrested for.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Washington comma the Great State of.
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    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Quote Quoting Arf417
    View Post
    So a great police officer like yourself is now name calling? yah you are def exemplifying my point. I will not make assumptions since I do not know you, but something tells me your one of the hot head officers who verbally abuse people??? Seem like it.. You can hate me. I really do not care. You would not be the first police officer. Seems like the few times I get arrested, me and my lawyer find things the police did that was uncalled for, and they get in trouble and 2 of them got fired. I love making police officers loose their job. Paid lawyers rock
    I'll respond to both of your posts in one reply to save space.

    No, it's not called police school 101. That was a literary device commonly used. Folks who made it to high school generally learn the concept as sarcasm, or hyperbole. You're really going to bite off more than you can chew here if you start in on other people's educations. Of course, my experience is limited to how you write here.

    I'm going to not only accept your false premise that 1/3 of the Atlanta Police Department's officers are convicted felons, but I'll expand it to all of them being convicted felons. I'll also assume that each person employed by the APD is a police officer (which also isn't true). Now, we're talking about roughly 2,300 employees. Now, in 2004, there were a little over 800,000 police officers in the United States. So, I'm going to reshuffle the numbers a little to make the math easier for you.

    To that end, I'll double the number of assumed commissioned officers in the APD and add to that 400 more. I'm going to reduce the number of known commissioned officers in 2004 by a little over 300,000. So, we're left with 5,000 assumed commissioned officers with felony convictions out of a pool of 500,000. So, even with all that generous math I've given to your "argument", you're talking about 1% of police officers with these convictions. The real number, even assuming that all of them have a felony conviction with the assumption that all 2300 employees of APD are commissioned would be 2,300 out of about 1,000,000. So, we're doubling 500,000 and halving 5,000, which sets off our percentage by a reduction factor of 4, thus yielding something like .25%. This is hardly statistically significant. This renders your assumed anecdotal argument completely moot.

    Fortunately, you were 100% wrong about any of them having a felony conviction. But even if all of them did, and all employees there were commissioned officers (which isn't true), your argument reduces to the following: all cops are criminals because .25% (.0025) of the nation's cops have had some felony conviction. It's nice to see that you've put so much thought into your wild ass assertions.

    Just because someone notes that you're an ass doesn't remotely imply that he's a bad police officer. Indeed, I'd take the position that he's a good cop because his ability to read people is quite spot on. That's a necessary trait when one works in a job that requires them to trim out the BS and figure out what happened despite the attempts of people to throw him off the track.

    I love how you say you'll make no assumptions about him in the very same "sentence" that you make - wait for it - an assumption about him. That's lovely.

    I'd be most interested in the news story which delineates how you made 2 police officers "loose [sic]" their jobs. Put up, or shut up.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    ashman, are you even a police officer or one of those "I went to my county citizen police boot camp" type of people? I love how you guys are getting so defensive and mad. That shows how your both in total control, just like you must be while on duty huh?

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Washington comma the Great State of.
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    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Quote Quoting Arf417
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    ashman, are you even a police officer or one of those "I went to my county citizen police boot camp" type of people? I love how you guys are getting so defensive and mad. That shows how your both in total control, just like you must be while on duty huh?
    Apparently, one of us isn't keeping up (and also doesn't know how to read a profile). No, I am no longer a police officer. I'm a mathematician now.

    Refuting absurd claims doesn't imply anger. I think you give yourself too much credit with respect to how much of an ability you presume you have over the emotions of people - on the internet of all places.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Metro Atlanta
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    71

    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    Wrong again. The story is that one in 3 recent academy grads have a "criminal record". Having a felony is an automatic disqualifier per state and federal law - even in Georgia. While it IS shameful that Atlanta might hire people with minor offenses in their past, I am more disturbed at the fact they hired people who had previously failed backgrounds for other factors such as lying on backgrounds.
    If you were closer to Atlanta, you'd understand. Why work for mediocre pay in a city that doesn't treat you well when you can go out in the suburbs, make about the same amount of money, work with a court system that might be functional, you'll get better training, and have a take home car.

    I recall when the AJC came out with the story that I guess y'all are talking about. At the time I was the Departmental Training Officer for a suburban agency, so I dealt with a lot of the issues and POST. My feeling was that we needed to look at each arrest, evaluate the report and listen to the applicant, then make up our own minds about the situation.

    There are people who are arrested over BS, and you should take that into consideration.

  10. #10
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Lie Detector Test

    Quote Quoting Billy Mack
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    I recall when the AJC came out with the story that I guess y'all are talking about. At the time I was the Departmental Training Officer for a suburban agency, so I dealt with a lot of the issues and POST. My feeling was that we needed to look at each arrest, evaluate the report and listen to the applicant, then make up our own minds about the situation.

    There are people who are arrested over BS, and you should take that into consideration.
    And that is fine and dandy, but if any of those convictions are felonies, it's all over. No amount of consideration can supplant state and federal law. Most any other conviction is something that the agency can overlook if they choose to. However, if an agency has been burned before, they are not going to take a chance. Or, if they have a stack of equally qualified applicants without a criminal record, they are going to take those that are less likely to cause headaches.

    And lying is almost always going to be a disqualifier ... rather, it SHOULD be. After all, if he lied on the background or application, it is NOT a distant leap to assume he might lie in the field, on a report, in court, and even to his superiors. Trust goes a long way.

    You look at the history in context. What did he do? How long ago was it? Where was he in his life at the time? What has he done since then? How has he changed? What were the facts of the case then? Was it a plea, or a guilty verdict? Did he take responsibility for his actions then or now? Etc. All these are questions to be asked when looking at past accusations or even convictions.

    Then, of course, you have potential Brady issues. If you have an officer that has been convicted of a couple of shoplifting crimes - crimes of moral turpitude - then you have built in problems in court. Crimes involving fraud, forgery, theft and even violence can cause HUGE problems for an agency in a civil case, or even one where the officer is merely a witness. I'd hate to be the guy who justified hiring an officer with a battery conviction and a public intoxication conviction who gets into a bar brawl in a neighboring city, or even gets into a drunken fight in your own!

    Certainly an agency can and should take the nature of previous convictions into account, but they also have to understand the realities of the conviction and what it might mean for the officer's ability to be effective or for the agency's liability.

    As my agency's background investigator for the past 8 years, I can honestly say that while we have considered and almost hired people with a misdemeanor conviction, they have ultimately never panned out in the end. They are often washed out in either some other element of the background, or the psychological exam, or even the polygraph. I am all for evaluating everyone on their merits and for putting any foibles into context. But, an agency cannot risk a millstone about the neck of the agency for a prospective employee of marginal value.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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