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  1. #1

    Exclamation Rear Ended

    My question involves insurance law for the state of: Florida

    So two weeks ago I was sitting in bumper to bumper traffic and a highschool springbreaker girl rearends me. The damage was minimal appearing but the problem is my car is a 1998 Saleen Mustang and parts are very hard to come by. Well anyways I elected to go through her insurance (State Farm) so I wont raise my rates for her stupidity and the insurance adjuster came to look at my car yesterday. First off they are only going to replace my rear bumper and repaint it so I will have an 11 year old car that has been in the Florida heat and is faded with a freshly painted rear bumper. Tacky. Next off my left exhaust pipe was bent in and is part of the Saleen package, and was made by Borla, which was $850 brand new in 1998 all the way up to when they were discontinued a couple years ago. You think they would replace my whole catback exhaust being as it is all one piece with a equal value one, but no they want to pay me $140 to have a local shop weld new tailpipes onto my mufflers. So now the value of my car is gonna decrease just because of some irresponsible idiot spring breaker. Is there anyway I can get the insurance company to pay for a comparable exhaust and repaint my whole car without sueing and forking out a bunch of cash?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Rear Ended

    there isn't a way to get what you want even with suing. She is only liable to return you to the condition you were before the accident and that appears to be to repair the paint on the bumper and replace the tailpipe.

    It is not her fault you did not maintain the rest of your paint and she is not required to replace a 10 year old exhaust system with a new one.


    If you want to argue it, ask your insurance company to pick up the bill for what you want and let them subrogate the claim. I'm betting they refuse you as well.

    Oh, and if you were worried about the value of your car, you would have prevented the paint fade to begin with. It's obvious you didn't care until she bumped your car.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Rear Ended

    First off I am the second owner of this car and am in the proccess of restoring it and the paint was already fading when I got it. Second of you have obviously no experience with a specialty car because you know nothing about it. The factory exhaust is one of a kind and they only made 208 total Saleens in 1998. Also there was nothing wrong with my exhaust before hand as it is made out of stainless steel but again you know nothing. Next opinion please!!!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rear Ended

    I apparently know more than you.Your actions are fraudulent and hopefully you will be taken to task on it.

    I do know that she is only liable to return you to pre-accident condition and that would be to repair the bumper and repair the exhaust.

    If you don;t like that, contact your insurance company and see if they will conspire to commit fraud along with you.

    Also there was nothing wrong with my exhaust before hand as it is made out of stainless steel
    but it is 10 year old SS

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    between here and there, but you can't here from there
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    Default Re: Rear Ended

    Quote Quoting 98saleen#059
    View Post
    First off I am the second owner of this car and am in the proccess of restoring it and the paint was already fading when I got it. Second of you have obviously no experience with a specialty car because you know nothing about it. The factory exhaust is one of a kind and they only made 208 total Saleens in 1998. Also there was nothing wrong with my exhaust before hand as it is made out of stainless steel but again you know nothing. Next opinion please!!!
    All paint fades regardless of well you care for it, even if you keep the vehicle covered and protected from light. Its the nature of the beast.

    All modern automobiles have SS exhuast systems and all are one piece units from the factory. Any replacement of the system entails cutting and removal followed by installation by clamping or welding. Points are not deducted for these wearable items, even at a concours show. Just the same as brake pads wear and must be replaced, exhaust is no different. The system is not one of a kind. That would imply each car has a different system.

    The system installed by the factory is a Borla system and Borla still has these parts available. Through dealer networking, they can find the nearest dealer with these parts on hand or they can produce it for you if you must have it.

    As for crash damage, insurance companies are obligated to repair the vehicle's parts damaged in order to restore it to pre-crash condition, nothing more,nothing less. Your car's bumper and tail pipe were damaged and that is as far as they are required to repair/replace, nothing more, nothing less.

    Paint fade is not a result of the crash. They have to paint match it to the color it was before crash. Obviously, they cannot age and fade paint so they have to paint it the original color. Anything beyond that is on your dime. The crash did not fade any paint, therefore no liablity exsists.

    If you want to be particular about it, join a Saleen club and find a parts car of the same age and color with a good bumper and have the insurance company buy and install it for you, the same with the exhaust system. But, I can tell you they aren't going to buy you a system, only the muffler. You can prorate the parts in percentages and you pay the difference, if you like, but then, I doubt they'll do that either.

    Simply put, you will get a color, not fade, matched bumper and a tail pipe. Muffler if you are very lucky. Nothing more, nothing less.


    And, yes, I know what I am talking about. I own a repair facility and have many years dealing with cars far more valuable than a Saleen. Infact, some autos I have dealt with make a Saleen look more like a Tempo.

    A source you can use to find parts for your car is www.car-part.com. This should help in your resto project
    You get more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Rear Ended

    Quote Quoting zedex
    View Post


    And, yes, I know what I am talking about. I own a repair facility and have many years dealing with cars far more valuable than a Saleen. Infact, some autos I have dealt with make a Saleen look more like a Tempo.
    More like a Tempo? I don;t see much difference to begin with.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rear Ended

    Obviously you guys are idiots. Not all cars have stainless steel exhaust, most manufacturers use what is called aluminized steel which rusts over time unlike stainless steel. Second off Borla doesnt make my exhaust anymore (and I know this because I have talked to reps from both) because it was on a contract with them and Saleen to make a certain amount and that was it. Yes paint fades over the years but the law states that the color after they do repairs has to be matching. A little hard to match an eleven year old paint to a brand new paint. Another thing that you dont understand due to your lack of knowledge and arrogance is that a Borla exhaust is a performance exhaust that is mandrel bent and engineering goes through it to make power. You think joe blow's muffler shop will have the kind of tools and experience to make something of equal value for $140? No they wont. I never asked to be hit and I expect the insurance company to at least repair my car to how it was before the accident, not put a crappy exhaust on my car. And just so you know my factory Saleen exhaust is one of kind. You probably dont even know what it looks like. Let me see if you can find one for sale for a 96-98 because you cant.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Rear Ended

    Have you seen an exhaust like this before?


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Rear Ended

    =98saleen#059;308963]Obviously you guys are idiots. Not all cars have stainless steel exhaust, most manufacturers use what is called aluminized steel which rusts over time unlike stainless steel.
    well, let's see, Chrysleer has been using SS for at least 15 years. So has Ford and so has GM. I have a 98 ford PU with SS exhaust (OE). If you want to argue a point, try to be correct with your facts.

    Second off Borla doesnt make my exhaust anymore (and I know this because I have talked to reps from both) because it was on a contract with them and Saleen to make a certain amount and that was it.
    then that makes it even worse for you. Rather than trying to argue that it only comes as a complete system, you can only repair it with aftermarket parts. They will not be required to replace it with something that is different that what you have.

    Yes paint fades over the years but the law states that the color after they do repairs has to be matching.
    Really? How about a citation to that law.
    A little hard to match an eleven year old paint to a brand new paint.
    but you said you are getting it painted. This appears to be a fraudulent attempt to require the girl to pay for what you already said was needed.

    Another thing that you dont understand due to your lack of knowledge and arrogance is that a Borla exhaust is a performance exhaust that is mandrel bent and engineering goes through it to make power.
    Do you even have any idea what "mandrel bent" even means. I seriously doubt it since you are using it as you are. And "engineering" goes through it? I though exhaust went through it.

    You think joe blow's muffler shop will have the kind of tools and experience to make something of equal value for $140? No they wont.
    Yep, I do. It's a tailpipe, not a rocket engine.

    I never asked to be hit and I expect the insurance company to at least repair my car to how it was before the accident, not put a crappy exhaust on my car.
    then ask them to straighten the pipe rather than replacing it.
    And just so you know my factory Saleen exhaust is one of kind.
    No, it isn't. Unless there was only one made, it is not one of a kind.
    You probably dont even know what it looks like.
    and that matters because? I think they are ugly and anybody that bought one paid way too much for a piece of crap Ford Mustang with a few extra parts thrown on so I really don;t care what it looks like.

    Let me see if you can find one for sale for a 96-98 because you cant.
    http://www.classilink.com/10091.html
    http://www.mustangtraderonline.com/s...t=added%20DESC
    http://www.mustangtraderonline.com/s...t=added%20DESC
    http://www.mustangtraderonline.com/s...t=added%20DESC
    http://www.mustangtraderonline.com/s...t=added%20DESC
    http://www.mustangtraderonline.com/s...t=added%20DESC

    Do I really have to continue? There are more. Many more.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    between here and there, but you can't here from there
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    Default Re: Rear Ended

    Quote Quoting 98saleen#059
    View Post
    Have you seen an exhaust like this before?

    What I see is a tail pipe with a heat shield just like those used on alot of cars, not just Saleens, Mustangs and Mustang Cobras. As a matter of fact, you can even buy that heat shield, in SS, over the counter of your local auto parts store.

    I checked on a new muffler, a Borla, and found they are still available. Not as a one piece system {note: one piece systems are NOT available} as you are obviously hoping to find.

    After market exhaust shops such as Midas, Mieneke, Monro and the ilk use aluminized piping, 0.80" thickness to be exact, and the mufflers are aluminized, too. OEM parts are SS.

    Borla was contracted to build exhaust systems, yes. But I seriously hope you don't think they built them for Saleen only. Engineering?? Yes, they are engineered. But that is done at the factories by factory engineers, not Borla.

    What you are missing here is that when a car is designed, the engineers factor in what they want from a system or subsysytem and have others build them. This takes the work load of the factory.

    Exmaples: Richmond is the providers of drive gears to Dana and Spicer. These two build-- to the factory's specs-- the axles used in trucks.

    Ever hear of Muncie transmissions?? They are made in Muncie, thus the name. They are a transmission and trans parts supplier

    How about the 351W. What's that?? A 351CI engine built in Windsor, Ontario

    My point is that the exhaust under your car was provided to the factory and is "off the shelf" parts, not a one of a kind build for no other than your car part. Its just a part.

    Would someone be able to build you an identical muffler? Yes, Borla could. Could any exhaust shop install it of bend a pipe to match yours? Absolutely. You see, we have what are known and "bend cards". That is a card that tells us at what degree of rotation, at what point in length and how deep to bend a pipe to match perfectly the pipe being replaced. These cards' information are supplied to the builder of mandrel and hydraulic, such as Huth. The info comes from the factory. Huth benders are flawless machines and I have never misbent a pipe due to a goof up in their cards adn they have cars from 1940 to date.

    I have never heard of any law saying the paint must match exsisting fade. Please enlighten us as to how this is done. In fact, I'm confident there is no such law. Perhaps one that says you cannot put a lime green bumper with yellow dots on a bright red car. They have to match the original paint color.

    I am not going to waste my time looking for a car I ain't buying, however, I don't think you are the only person on the planet that owns the only Saleen ever for sale.

    I'll end this with a comment. It seems to me that you are wanting help in restoring a car that will cost more than its worth to restore adn this crash may just be your free brand new, fresh from the box exhaust system and a total paint job. Being that's the obvious case, why not ask your ins company to cover the cost of your restoration project

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    More like a Tempo? I don;t see much difference to begin with.
    There isn't much difference. They are both nothing more than just cars. Now, if Mr Man had a Superbird or a Ferrari, I'd have a differenet opinion
    You get more with a kind word and a gun than a kind word alone

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