Rolling Stop California

[Arnold Schwarzenegger]

Might be late for you but you can change venue and go to the county seat. This way it is harder for the officer to show up. Then just hope he doesn't. You haven't got a prayer otherwise.

[That Guy]

Might be late for you but you can change venue and go to the county seat. This way it is harder for the officer to show up. Then just hope he doesn't. You haven't got a prayer otherwise.

Looks to me like the Chris lives in Arcadia which is directly southwest of Pasadena. So unless he works closer to the city of Los Angeles (which is where L A county seat is) means that he would have to travel farther to get to the county seat.

Add to that the fact that a change of venue should be requested from the officer at the time of the stop.

Not really sure how one could assume that the officer might not show up at a particular courthouse without knowing the officer's schedule and the city where he/she resides! Two tidbits which are neither readily available nor accessible!!!

[HonkingAntelope]

IMO, 2nd offender traffic school is a waste of time. The violation still goes on your record along with the associated insurance hike. The only benefit is that you don't get the point, which is kind of a wash unless you're a commercial driver (in which case you're not eligible for T/S anyway) or you're only a couple points away from losing your license.

Since you are not eligible for traffic school, you have nothing to lose except some time by fighting it to the bitter end. Just go to court and file a trial by declaration. All you have to write on your statement of facts is 'I am not guilty!!! ^_^'. If the officer doesn't reply - you win. If he does, go to court, ask for a copy of the officer's declaration, and file a trial de novo request. This will get you a trial with the officer present - no questions asked. Maybe he won't show up. You might also find good grounds for a defense in the officer's declaration, too. Obtain a prior permission to use a voice recorder @ trial and pay attention. If the judge runs a blatant kangaroo court, you might have grounds for appeal. AFAIK, appeals courts encourage lower courts to dismiss rather than retry minor infractions if they reverse a case.

[That Guy]

IMO, 2nd offender traffic school is a waste of time. The violation still goes on your record along with the associated insurance hike.

I don’t work in Auto Insurance and although I am aware of a few details of how a policy is rated, I am not preview to the entire process. All I can say is if I my violation point count has not changed and yet my premium went up, I’d have to questions for my agent. There are literally, 49 other insurance companies that wouldn’t mind me writing them a couple of check a year.

The only benefit is that you don't get the point, which is kind of a wash unless you're a commercial driver (in which case you're not eligible for T/S anyway) or you're only a couple points away from losing your license.

I can’t disagree, however, one cannot anticipate when or where the next ticket might come. If you can do something to eliminate the point, do it.

Point stay on your record for 3 years whereas you are allowed one traffic school per 18 month period (violation date of the first ticket to the violation date of the second ticket must be 18 or more months). Potentially two 8 hrs courses and you might even get a sympathetic judge to allow you a 12 hour course somewhere in the middle.

If the officer doesn't reply - you win

Unfortunately, and just like “if the officer doesn’t show up in court - you win” story, that isn’t as great a possibility as it used to be. I’m not disagreeing with you about it working or not, I just know for a fact that some law enforcement agencies (CHP is one) has become strict as far as letting an officer slack on either appearing in court or submitting the TBWD statement.

Look at it this way, what good is an officer if he pulls over and cites drivers all day long only to decide not to show up in court or not file a copy of his declaration. They are either obligated to doing both as part of their normal shift and as far as court appearances, and if they happen to be off that day, they get paid overtime.

I can also tell you that more and more courts are coordinating the traffic court trial with the officer’s work schedule. As in “Officer Brown is here on Wednesdays…” they schedule any of his citations that go to trial on Wednesdays.

Again, just posting what I know… Not disputing anything you said!

Hopefully Chris will let us know how it turned out for him…

[HonkingAntelope]

I spoke with my ins agent a while back and she told me that they count on the basis of chargeable violations, not solely DMV points. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if different insurance companies have different policies.

The main difference between the 8hr class you get every 18months and the 12hour course is that the 8hr class masks the violation completely, whereas the 12hr class only cancels the point on your license. Unless you get A LOT of tickets, a point here and there isn't that big of a deal for reasons I mentioned earlier. Still, if you can eliminate a point and don't mind wasting a day, go for it.

As for the officers not filing TBD/showing up, your mileage may vary dramatically based on the charge, the citing agency, location, the primary duty of the officer, and etc. Last year, i won two cases on TBD and one because the Ofc. didn't show up.

If you look at it from an economic perspective, a decent cop could easily write 10 more tickets in time it takes to prepare and testify for one case. Since only ~3% of drivers fight their tickets instead of just paying up, it's more profitable to have the officer write more tickets rather than spend time in court (at least until the word gets out that cops don't show up half the time).