Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8
Results 71 to 78 of 78
  1. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    853

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    and make it LEGAL to let out a kid from a schoolbus even if it's not at the approved stop
    So, if a 6 year old child is let off in the middle of a bad neighborhood because he wants to get off the bus in front of the candy store, and the child is abducted and killed, do you propose to not hold the bus driver responsible?

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    471

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    And if they want to stay out of legal trouble, the city or jurisdiction in question will have hours of operation within the code section. Having seen curfews AND school hour curfews go down in flames in court because of poor wording, most (at least in CA) have been re-written to provide for adequate wording to avoid being overly broad and to specify the hours. Often times such a daytime curfew would extend from 9 AM until about 1 or 2 PM. Plus, there might be provisions to exclude students that can demonstrate they are on home study or have graduated.

    Note that a child that graduates high school at age 10 is not likely to be wandering the streets anyway ... he's likely a phenom and is off in college or closely controlled by his or her parents to begin with. Thus this is not an issue likely to be dealt with.

    - Carl
    I didn't make my original point well.

    Rights exist for all Americans regardless of their age. However masking those rights are other laws designed to protect children and add order to society. Their rights are all intact and all apply it's just that other rules are imposed that take priority, it doesn't take away the underlying right. Thus each law designed to protect or promote once fulfilled reveals the existing right (such as the right of a child to be out in the daytime)

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,393

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    Quote Quoting kist
    View Post
    I didn't make my original point well.

    Rights exist for all Americans regardless of their age. However masking those rights are other laws designed to protect children and add order to society. Their rights are all intact and all apply it's just that other rules are imposed that take priority, it doesn't take away the underlying right. Thus each law designed to protect or promote once fulfilled reveals the existing right (such as the right of a child to be out in the daytime)
    I guess I can agree with that.

    There are greater restrictions placed on the rights of children as they are not deemed mature enough nor capable enough to care for themselves, hence the plethora of laws that enact "status" offenses. These offenses are crimes solely because of the age of the individual and would not otherwise BE a crime if the individual were over a particular age (drinking, driving, smoking, staying out late, etc.). I think only Tim can argue that my 9 year old child has the same legal rights and responsibilities as I do and that I cannot legally prevent him from doing anything ... in spite of the fact that I can go to jail if I fail to provide for him, fail to protect him or force him to go to school, etc.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,835

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    Second, the SC does NOT have jurisdiction over a case that does NOT involve a "federal question".

    Such matters, curfew, etc. that the state has a compelling interest to regulate, unless we see one that concerns a national issue, such as a minor's abortion, as you quoted, falls soley under a state's sovereign.

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    BOR, you dissapoint me. I had such high hopes for you. Any law can come under the scrutiny of the SCOTUS if it concerns constitutional law. Curfews most assuredly could come under the oversight of the SCOTUS as it would restrict ones constitutional rights. As a matter if fact, the SCOTUS would be the place one would want to end up since one of the few reasons one would contest a curfew law would be on consitutional grounds.

    You also chopped my post up, I also said:


    ...Second, the SC does NOT have jurisdiction over a case that does NOT involve a "federal question"...



    ...Let's assume for debate purposes a Judge rules so and appeals are exhausted on a state level and the local court was overruled. The minor, by and through counsel, appeals.

    A Petition for Certiorari states thus:

    Question:


    Do curfews of minors violate the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, (the Federal question necessary)!.....



    Unless the appeal INCLUDES a federal question, such as above, it will not even be remotely considered for review.

    IF intrastate appeals/decisions did NOT base thier arguments on a federal question, then a Petition for Certiorari can NOT include such just to form a basis for the high court to hear it.


    Say for example, the defendant argues a search was unconstitutional under the Ohio Constitution at his criminal trial. He looses and the evidence was admitted and not suppressed. On appeal he can NOT argue it violated the federal constitution as this was not proffered at trial, so can NOT form the basis of an appeal, unless the court ruled such also, even when not argued it did.

    Many court decisions base thier conclusions of law on BOTH federal and state constitutions/laws.

    Example, a famous Ohio case that was remanded:

    Held:

    1. This Court has jurisdiction to review the Ohio Supreme Court's decision. The contention that jurisdiction is lacking because the Ohio decision rested in part upon the State Constitution is rejected under Michigan v. Long, 463 U.S. 1032, 1040-1041. Although the opinion below mentions the Ohio Constitution in passing, it clearly relies on federal law, discussing and citing federal cases almost exclusively.

    2. The Fourth Amendment does not require that a lawfully seized defendant be advised that he is "free to go" before his consent to search will be recognized as voluntary.



    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-891.ZS.html

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,734

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    Quote Quoting BOR
    View Post
    You also chopped my post up, I also said:

    l
    You are the one that separated this statement , not me.
    Such matters, curfew, etc. that the state has a compelling interest to regulate, unless we see one that concerns a national issue, such as a minor's abortion, as you quoted, falls soley under a state's sovereign.
    I merely stated that about the only action against something such as a curfew would in fact be on a constitutional basis and as such, would properly be under the review of the SCOTUS.

    They way I read your post, it would unusual for a case involving something such as a curfew to be under the control or interest of the SCOTUS. I see it just the opposite.

    I was merely stating that I can see few actions that would not be concerning a federal question from the beginning. Obviously, most cases begin at the state level and upon a decision, an appeal is filed with the appropriate court depending what the reason for the appeal happens to be. When the case is appealed to the SCOTUS, obviously it must contain a federal level concern.

    In other words, there are cases that are specifically concerning a federal level question as opposed to a states. I would believe most questions concerning curfews would fall under this situation for I can see few problems concerning curfews that do not concern ones constitutional rights.

    Unless the appeal INCLUDES a federal question, such as above, it will not even be remotely considered for review.
    of course it wouldn;t. Why would the feds hear a case not involving a federal question? That is the point; at some point, all cases heard by the SCOTUS were presented in terms of a federal question. The feds do not have jurisdiction to rule on state law that does not involve a federal level question.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,835

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    You are the one that separated this statement , not me.
    I may have seperated the paragraphs, but the intent was not to seperate the thought in toto.

    I merely stated that about the only action against something such as a curfew would in fact be on a constitutional basis and as such, would properly be under the review of the SCOTUS.

    They way I read your post, it would unusual for a case involving something such as a curfew to be under the control or interest of the SCOTUS. I see it just the opposite.
    I did mean to imply such was not under scrutiny of the federal constitution. You misunderstood me! Any curtail of movement can be argued as violative of the 1st AM. Whether a court will see it that way remains the Q.



    From my research the US Supreme court has never directly addressed curfews for minors, whether on EP grounds or 1st AM grounds. Federal circuit courts have though.

    Freedom of movement, fredom of locomotion etc, are fundmantal rights true, but the law can also restrict a parent from permitting a 5 year old from walking around outside at 1 in the morning unattended, not that I am telling you anything new, of course.

    We all have discussed 1st AM cases on here before, maybe not in detail on curfew laws, but general freedom of travel, etc.

    For anyone interested here is an Alaska SC case in a city curfew ordinance was held to be Constitutional by it's "wording". There are several challenges, one was the EP clause, dismissed, others were grounded in the 1st AM, dismissed. This is not to say other courts have not struck down curfew laws for being void for vagueness.

    Several important foot notes:


    50 Age is not a suspect class. Gregory v. Ashcroft, 501
    U.S. 452, 470 (1991). Therefore, the plaintiffs claim strict
    scrutiny is applicable solely on the basis that fundamental
    rights are at stake.

    52 Williams v. Fears, 179 U.S. 270, 274 (1900). See also
    Hutchins v. Dist. of Columbia, 188 F.3d 531, 536-39 (D.C. Cir.
    1999) (plurality opinion) (recognizing some Supreme Court case
    law suggesting some . . . generalized right to movement but
    declining to find the existence of a fundamental right for
    juveniles to be in a public place without adult supervision
    during curfew hours).

    EP claim, in part:


    2. The ordinance does not violate constitutional guarantees of
    equal protection.

    The Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment

    is essentially a directive that all persons similarly situated

    should be treated alike.48 The general rule is that legislation

    is presumed to be valid and will be sustained if the

    classification drawn by the statute is rationally related to a

    legitimate state interest.49 But if a classification impinges a

    fundamental right or disadvantages a suspect class,50 the

    ordinance is subject to strict scrutiny



    http://touchngo.com/sp/html/sp-5807.htm

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    In B.C. Canada the school is responsible to and from school.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,393

    Default Re: Student's Right to Get Off a School Bus

    Quote Quoting RTMS
    View Post
    In B.C. Canada the school is responsible to and from school.
    Pretty much the case here in the States, too. To some degree, anyway.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8

Similar Threads

  1. F Visas: High School Student
    By porkbun in forum Visas for Business, Tourism and Family
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-21-2010, 05:11 PM
  2. Emancipation: Emancipation for a High School Student
    By CraneshiaReed2012 in forum Juvenile Law
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-18-2010, 03:40 PM
  3. Student at School Charged with Assault
    By vadriverinwas in forum Juvenile Law
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-27-2009, 02:57 PM
  4. Student Loans: State School Student Loan
    By Dave1974 in forum Debts and Collections
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-11-2008, 06:34 AM
  5. Student Discipline: Student Actions Outside Of School
    By TNhsStudent in forum Education Law
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-28-2008, 07:35 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources