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  1. #1
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    Question Seat Belt Violation in California

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CA

    I was pulled over by a CA Highway Patrolman and cited for not wearing a seat belt (27315(d)(1) cvc). This occurred at a 4-way stop near my home. I told him I don't wear it due to the pressure it places on my heart and my pacemaker. He asked if I had a doctor's note, and I said no.

    I didn't bother telling him as he was obviously not interested, but I religiously wore my seat belt (and raised my kids to always wear theirs) until about a year ago. I suffered a massive heart attack 5 years ago, but miraculously survived. Since that day, the slightest pressure against my chest makes my heart beat as if I am about to go into atrial fibrillation (I have gone into a-fib, though not due to my seat belt -- something I don't want to repeat). I used to buckle it and hold the shoulder strap away from my chest while I dove, but that really got old and became very difficult after getting a new company car recently due to the configuration of the steering wheel.

    Although I always buckle when driving on the freeway, I don't bother when driving around town because it's more difficult due to the increased movement required for signaling and turning. Holding the strap away from my chest when driving in town is more dangerous in my experience than driving without the belt.

    I couldn't imagine why an officer would pull someone over just for that. What's next? Will we get pulled over for changing the station on the radio...picking our nose...scratching? Aren't there some actual criminals out there to be arrested?

    I don't have any idea what the fine will be. If it's much of a fine, I intend to fight the ticket. Maybe he won't show-up in court, you never know. Any advice on how to fight it would be appreciated (in case he does show-up).

    I was wondering, what about all the people who have tinted windows? Officers can't see whether they are wearing their belts, so that puts the rest of us at a disadvantage. Any merit in arguing this?

    Thank you

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    I don't have any idea what the fine will be. If it's much of a fine, I intend to fight the ticket.
    Don't bother. Without a doctor's certification, you don't have a leg to stand on.

    (g) This section does not apply to a passenger or operator with a physically disabling condition or medical condition which would prevent appropriate restraint in a safety belt, if the condition is duly certified by a licensed physician and surgeon or by a licensed chiropractor who shall state the nature of the condition, as well as the reason the restraint is inappropriate. This section also does not apply to a public employee, when in an authorized emergency vehicle as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 165, or to any passenger in any seat behind the front seat of an authorized emergency vehicle as defined in paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 165 operated by the public employee, unless required by the agency employing the public employee.
    Besides, the fine is only $20 the first time you're busted.

    Aren't there some actual criminals out there to be arrested?
    The fact that someone else is breaking the law does not excuse you from abiding by it. This argument holds no water.

    I was wondering, what about all the people who have tinted windows? Officers can't see whether they are wearing their belts, so that puts the rest of us at a disadvantage. Any merit in arguing this?
    No merit whatsoever, and it would only make the judge mad. See above about not being excused from abiding by the law just because someone else is playing fast and loose with it.

    Best course of action? Pay your $20, and go to your doctor to be certified.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Thank you Missy for the good advice.

    The fact that someone else is breaking the law does not excuse you from abiding by it. This argument holds no water.
    I agree - my only point here was that I couldn't understand why an officer would spend his valuable time on such a silly infraction when there are so many more serious events occurring out there. Where I live, I'm surrounded by illegals driving vehicles that aren't road-safe and without licenses or insurance, but he picks me to pull over because I'm not wearing a seatbelt. And all the gangbangers with tinted windows can drive without their seatbelts with impunity. It just seems stupid to me.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Quote Quoting tkroper
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    I agree - my only point here was that I couldn't understand why an officer would spend his valuable time on such a silly infraction when there are so many more serious events occurring out there.
    Here's a couple of reasons ... when you aren't wearing that seatbelt, that 25 MPH fender bender you might get in to becomes a serious injury collision instead of property damage only. Plus, where do you think we find most wanted people? On traffic stops. We don't find them with warrant sweeps or fugitive task forces, we find them on routine contacts - mostly traffic.

    Remember Timothy McVeigh and how HE was caught?

    Where I live, I'm surrounded by illegals driving vehicles that aren't road-safe and without licenses or insurance, but he picks me to pull over because I'm not wearing a seatbelt.
    The police are forbidden by law (federal and state) from pulling people over without cause solely to check their license and insurance status ... more so to check if they are legal residents.

    And all the gangbangers with tinted windows can drive without their seatbelts with impunity. It just seems stupid to me.
    We also give tickets to people with tinted windows ... that's not allowed on the front windows.

    - Carl

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Here's a couple of reasons ... when you aren't wearing that seatbelt, that 25 MPH fender bender you might get in to becomes a serious injury collision instead of property damage only. Plus, where do you think we find most wanted people? On traffic stops. We don't find them with warrant sweeps or fugitive task forces, we find them on routine contacts - mostly traffic.

    Remember Timothy McVeigh and how HE was caught?


    The police are forbidden by law (federal and state) from pulling people over without cause solely to check their license and insurance status ... more so to check if they are legal residents.


    We also give tickets to people with tinted windows ... that's not allowed on the front windows.

    - Carl
    Carl, anyone who quotes C.S. Lewis can't be all bad. But please reconsider your line of thinking. By following your justification, we should simply outlaw speeds in excess of 25 mph if we really want to prevent serious injuries (or, perhaps, ban driving altogether). And, if I remember correctly, McVeigh was pulled over 2 or 3 times prior to finally being arrested.
    Long time Oklahoma Patrol officer Trooper Charlie Hanger had been dispatched to Oklahoma City. Like many law enforcement officers, he'd been summoned to provide whatever assistance he could.

    Soon after, however, he received another order to remain in his usual patrol area Noble County. He turned around and headed north on I-35. He was about 75 miles from the disaster area when he noticed a beat-up 1977 Mercury Grand Marquis. What caught his attention was the yellow car's lack of a license plate.

    He pulled the driver over and got out of his patrol car. Timothy McVeigh got out of the yellow junker and went to meet him.

    McVeigh was wearing a T-shirt at that time with a picture of Abraham Lincoln and the motto: sic semper tyrannis, the state motto of Virginia, and also the words shouted by John Wilkes Booth after he shot Lincoln. The translation: Thus, always, to tyrants. On the back, it had a tree with a picture of three blood droplets and the Thomas Jefferson quote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."Three days later, while still in jail, McVeigh was identified as the subject of the nationwide manhunt.

    Hanger wanted to know why McVeigh had no license plate. McVeigh explained he'd just bought the car. When Hanger asked if he had insurance, registration, or a bill of sale McVeigh explained everything was being mailed to his address. Then he handed over his driver's license.

    It was then Hanger noticed a bulge under McVeigh's jacket. "What's that?" the cop asked. When McVeigh said it was a gun, the trooper held his own weapon to McVeigh's head. Then Hanger confiscated the 9-mm Glock that McVeigh was packing, as well as an ammo clip and a knife.

    McVeigh pointed out he had a legal right to carry a gun. Hanger cuffed McVeigh, put him in the police car and phoned his base. He asked his dispatcher to run a computer check on McVeigh's Michigan driver's license and the Glock.

    After confirming McVeigh had no record, he explained that McVeigh's New York concealed-weapon permit was not legal in Oklahoma. With McVeigh's permission, he searched the Mercury and found nothing but a baseball cap, some tools and a plain white envelope. The prisoner was told to leave everything in the car, which the trooper locked before taking McVeigh to the Noble County Jail in Perry, Oklahoma.
    I, too, had no plates but the officer never commented about that. Perhaps that's because he could see that I was driving a brand new Honda Accord, and I was dressed in business casual with no anarchist messages printed anywhere (throughout my life, people have told me I look like a cop). To the most casual observer, I am obviously not a criminal. Quite a stark contrast from McVeigh.

    But maybe, just in case, we should have daily routine traffic stops for everyone in order to help the police catch criminals and, while they're at it, they can cite all contributing members of society who aren't wearing our seat belts at that time. Illegals can rest easy, though, since police are prohibited from harassing them. For our own good, you should be able to pull us over for eating Big Macs and cite us for elevated cholesterol.

    Lastly, here in SoCal, probably 1 out of every 3 or 4 cars is completely tinted except for the windshield. Efforts (if any) to cite them are a complete failure.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Quote Quoting tkroper
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    Carl, anyone who quotes C.S. Lewis can't be all bad. But please reconsider your line of thinking. By following your justification, we should simply outlaw speeds in excess of 25 mph if we really want to prevent serious injuries (or, perhaps, ban driving altogether).
    It already IS against the law to drive 25 over the speed limit. banning driving is just silly. My "line of thinking" is that not wearing your seatbelt is an infraction under the law. There are ample safety reasons to justify why you are required to wear it. And, many crimes and most warrant arrests occur as a result of traffic stops. These contacts are also why it is among the highest risk activities law enforcement undertakes. Two officers from my former agency were killed on traffic stops - both killed after I left there, and one was a friend of mine. So, trust me, we do not take traffic stops lightly.

    But maybe, just in case, we should have daily routine traffic stops for everyone in order to help the police catch criminals and, while they're at it, they can cite all contributing members of society who aren't wearing our seat belts at that time.
    Apparently in washington state they can do just that.

    Illegals can rest easy, though, since police are prohibited from harassing them.
    Ah, but they tend not to have driver's licenses and they usually have cars in bad shape, so they, too, will suffer the consequences.

    For our own good, you should be able to pull us over for eating Big Macs and cite us for elevated cholesterol.
    No law against that.

    Lastly, here in SoCal, probably 1 out of every 3 or 4 cars is completely tinted except for the windshield. Efforts (if any) to cite them are a complete failure.
    Seven out of ten people in SoCal also speed on a daily basis - guess we should forget about that enforcement , too ... and shoplifting hasn't been resolved by arrests, so why not give up and that as well?

    All because enforcement has not resulted in complete compliance does not mean we should just stop doing it. Perhaps an argument can be made that enforcement in these areas needs to be stepped up?

    - Carl

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Quote Quoting tkroper
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    Thank you Missy for the good advice.

    I agree - my only point here was that I couldn't understand why an officer would spend his valuable time on such a silly infraction when there are so many more serious events occurring out there. Where I live, I'm surrounded by illegals driving vehicles that aren't road-safe and without licenses or insurance, but he picks me to pull over because I'm not wearing a seatbelt. And all the gangbangers with tinted windows can drive without their seatbelts with impunity. It just seems stupid to me.
    Just because you consider it silly doesn't make it silly. It only makes it silly to you.

    The use of seatbelts dramatically reduces injuries to persons involved in motor collisions. Injured people need medical care. Medical care is expensive and not everyone has medical insurance. By mitigating the injuries people suffer during collisions, we reduce the amount of money the taxpayers have to waste paying for their obstinancy.

    To help coerce people into relieving the tax burden, we penalize those who choose not to wear seatbelts by fining them and assessing points against their licenses so that their insurance companies can also raise their individual rates. This also helps offset insurances rates of the law abiding motorists who carry motor vehicle insurance.

    It is surely a compelling state interest to further the economy and reduce the amount of its tax collections wasted on poor decisions of others.

    If you have a legitimate reason not to wear your seatbelt, your doctor can give you a note.

    Yes, there are real criminals out there breaking more important laws. We also prosecute them as often as possible. Just because there are murderers out there doesn't mean somehow that every law inferior to the murder statutes becomes less important.

    Arguing that a police officer can't stop every seatbelt renegade doesn't negate the fact that he caught you.

    Carl, you should come be a cop in Washington. During daytime hours, any state trooper in a plainly marked patrol car can stop people just to check their license and insurance.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Quote Quoting ashman165
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    Carl, you should come be a cop in Washington. During daytime hours, any state trooper in a plainly marked patrol car can stop people just to check their license and insurance.
    Care to cite the law on that? It sounds plainly unconstitutional to me.

    - Carl

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Care to cite the law on that? It sounds plainly unconstitutional to me.

    - Carl
    I hadn't planned on it though I figured you'd ask.

    So, here you go we can do eet all day long!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Seat Belt Violation in California

    I just received notice in the mail this weekend - the fine is $102.20. This is a crock. When did hard working policemen turn from crime fighters to behavior monitors?

    Quote Quoting ashman165
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    Just because you consider it silly doesn't make it silly. It only makes it silly to you.
    Oh, please.

    The use of seatbelts dramatically reduces injuries to persons involved in motor collisions. Injured people need medical care. Medical care is expensive and not everyone has medical insurance. By mitigating the injuries people suffer during collisions, we reduce the amount of money the taxpayers have to waste paying for their obstinancy.

    To help coerce people into relieving the tax burden, we penalize those who choose not to wear seatbelts by fining them and assessing points against their licenses so that their insurance companies can also raise their individual rates. This also helps offset insurances rates of the law abiding motorists who carry motor vehicle insurance.

    It is surely a compelling state interest to further the economy and reduce the amount of its tax collections wasted on poor decisions of others.
    Do you mean poor decisions like taking out $500,000 mortgages with no down payment or steady job history or credit rating? The state coerced lenders to provide loans to unqualified borrowers -- see where that's gotten us? Now the state expects me to shell out $102.20 for not wearing my seat belt. They'll use that to help bail out my illegal neighbors from losing their homes.

    A substantial number of those who don't wear seat belts and get in accidents have their medical expenses paid for by the state, and I doubt they even get cited for not having worn their seat belt.

    I think you've lost all perspective on this issue. There are more compelling issues the state could spend time and energy coercing society to comply with. If we swallow this one, what's the next scheme the state will force upon us? A far greater threat to our well-being and economy than being a "seatbelt renegade" is the threat of heart disease due to poor exercise and dietary habits. Shall we accept government nannyism in these areas of our lives too? McDonald's raids could be a huge source of revenue for the state.

    If you have a legitimate reason not to wear your seatbelt, your doctor can give you a note.
    There goes your compelling state interest argument.

    Yes, there are real criminals out there breaking more important laws. We also prosecute them as often as possible. Just because there are murderers out there doesn't mean somehow that every law inferior to the murder statutes becomes less important.
    Did you actually read what you wrote here? First you agree that there are more important laws, then you say "inferior" laws are not less important.

    Arguing that a police officer can't stop every seatbelt renegade doesn't negate the fact that he caught you.
    So, because I exercised the mind God gave me to weigh the benefits of wearing a seat belt versus the risk it causes me makes me a "seatbelt renegade"? I was hoping more of us were still clinging to the idea that we lived in a free society.

    Carl, you should come be a cop in Washington. During daytime hours, any state trooper in a plainly marked patrol car can stop people just to check their license and insurance.
    I'll bet that helps WA police avoid stopping contributing members of society for obstinately not wearing a seat belt, because they have a legitimate reason for stopping those who actually look suspicious of having committed a crime against society.

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