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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Quote Quoting mickey68
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    He is no longer employed there, he was offered a job on a local farm.

    The boss was always cursing him about how stupid he was and when he grows up.. blah blah, which I would of thought could be seen as harassment. Or discrimination because of age since his age and youth always seemed to be the basis of his rants.. never the less, he is no longer there.

    The kid has never even let a curse word slip in front of me, but his younger sister has.. even on his myspace pages he writes butt as opposed to ass and so on. He really is a clean cut very honest kid, shame he was treated the way he was.

    Thanks to everyone that weighed in, it is much appreciated that you take your time to answer.
    then I guess this question (posed 2 days ago) was a bit misleading:

    Is there anything he can do about this, can he record the conversations?...
    Since the situation no longer exists (and how long ago did he head on down to the farm), and he did nothing while it was happening, why would you bother to ask what he could do now?

    the simple answer:

    nothing

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    3,835

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Quote Quoting jk
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    It used to be in Michigan until about 5 years ago. The only reason it is n;t now is because the law was unconstitutional because it was illegal to swear in front of a woman or child and not a man. Actually, not even sure the courts simply didn't just strike the portion about the woman and leave the "in hearing range of a child" intact.

    I'll have to research this a bit. Maybe Aaron knows off the top of his head. It was all because a man fell out of a canoe and was swearing and got charged with the crime.


    I know, not the same state and all but it does go to show that there were (and maybe still is) laws preventing such language in front of a minor.

    I know of this case, as a matter of fact, as I looked it up on the 1st AM center some years back when it came up in discussion on another board:

    http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...chString=canoe

    It was a 105 year old law and the court declared it either desuetude or NON fighting words which would constitute a valid charge or void for vagueness??

  3. #13
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Quote Quoting BOR
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    I know of this case, as a matter of fact, as I looked it up the 1st AM center some years back when it came up in discussion on another board:

    http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/...chString=canoe

    It was a 105 year old law and the court declared it either desuetude or NON fighting words which would constitute a valid charge or void for vagueness??
    that's the one!!

  4. #14
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    Aug 2007
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    3,835

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Quote Quoting jk
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    that's the one!!


    Here is the citation jk. I am going to look it up at the law library, OR if Aaron reads this he can post the syllabus or snyopsis:


    People v. Boomer, 655 N.W.2d 255

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,835

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    jk, I just got back from the law library where I copied the decision. I could not pull up the past decision page on the Michigan appeals court website.

    These are some pertinent inclusions.

    Cite as 655 N.W. 2nd 255 (Mich.App.2002)

    I copied it from the NW reporter series, not Mich APP.


    250 Mich.App 534

    People of the state of Michigan, Plaintiff-Appellee v. Timothy Joseph Boomer, Defendant-Appellant;

    The "key" referenced is actually in the shape of a key. West is widely respected for it's key # system.

    (A plug for West publishing co. here)!!

    Criminal law; (West key number citation) 13.1(1);

    Under vagueness doctrine, in order to pass constitutional muster, a penal statute must define the criminal offense with sufficient definiteness that ordinary people can understand what conduct is prohibited and in a manner that does not encourage arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement.


    Constitutional law: key # 82 (4)

    Criminal law 13.1 (1)

    There are at least 3 ways a penal staute may be found unconstitutionally vauge: (1) failure to provide fair notice of what conduct is prohibited; (2) encouragement of abitrary and discriminatory enforecment; (3) being overbroad and impinging on First Amendment freedoms.

    Constitutional law: 258 (3.1)

    Disorderly conduct: 1

    Statute criminalizing the use of indecent and vulgar language was unconstitutional on it face, since it did not include any restrictive language that would limit or guide a prosecution and provide fair notice of prohibited conduct.


    Constitutional law: key # 90.4 (1)

    Since the first amendment does not protect obscene speech, a legislature, if so inclined, could enact a propely drawn staute to protect minors from such exposure.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    28,906

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    You can read People v Boomer here, in PDF format.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3,835

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Quote Quoting aaron
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    You can read People v Boomer here, in PDF format.

    You could have saved me a trip!!

  8. #18

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    I asked because we had no idea he would get offered the other job.. It was an out of the blue offer to him on a recommendation by one of his high school friends, who happens to work at the farm as well. My nephew had said something to his friend about the recent rant and the friend mentioned him when his boss said they may need someone else.

    He starts after school tomorrow.

    Why do you think I asked.. to see if you were sleeping??...

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Quote Quoting mickey68
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    I

    Why do you think I asked.. to see if you were sleeping??...
    People ask all sorts of questions; some real, some homework, some speculative, some irrelevent since the situation has passed. It simply was timing in this situation and without some explanation, it appeared that it may have been the last thing on the list above.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Cursing Minor Employee

    Ahh.. understood.

    I just like to add anything relevant or current to my questions so that those that are kind enough to respond know I pay attention and appreciate the thought and time taken by those that try to help.


    So I thought it considerate to post the new situation, have a great night.

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