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  1. #1
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    Jan 2008
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    Default Arbitrary Degree Accreditation Requirement

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Federal

    I have a doctorate and am board-certified. Board certification represents the highest level of competence in my field. I received my training in the 1980s. The program from which I graduated applied for accreditation when I was attending but did not receive it until after I graduated. This was not uncommon in my field at the time, and I can show that my program offered training equivalent to accredited programs in place then and now.

    I recently hand-delivered an employment application packet to a secretary at a nearby federal agency. According to the human resources person in a taped conversation, he received the packet later that day, immediately identified me as a shoo-in for the position, and walked the packet to the Division Chief, who told him I was just what she needed. I interviewed for the position with the Chief within a week. The interview went well. I was introduced to professional staff and given a tour of the agency.

    Two weeks later I learned that there was a problem with my application, namely, that I had not graduated from an accredited program. I e-mailed the agency’s Chair of National Professional Standards and asked if a person who is board certified but whose degree is not from an accredited program can be employed by the agency, and, if not, if procedures exist, e.g., an individualized exception review similar to that offered by professional boards, whereby such a person could qualify.

    His reply: “The qualification standards are clear and unwavering that you must have a degree from an accredited program. This has been the standard since 1980, and no exceptions have been granted except for those who were employed before the standard went into effect.”

    The U.S. Code states that the position in question requires "a doctoral degree satisfactory to the Secretary," whereas the agency itself has a more restrictive policy that in my view unfairly excludes persons who meet the highest professional standards of competence, i.e., those with board certification. This is like saying, “We don’t care if you’re Harvard summa cum laude, you started with a GED and our policy calls for a diploma.”

    I’ve looked all over and can’t tell what kind of a labor law issue, if any, this is. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    3,835

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Quote Quoting karnut2005
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    The U.S. Code states that the position in question requires "a doctoral degree satisfactory to the Secretary," whereas the agency itself has a more restrictive policy that in my view unfairly excludes persons who meet the highest professional standards of competence, i.e., those with board certification. This is like saying, “We don’t care if you’re Harvard summa cum laude, you started with a GED and our policy calls for a diploma.”

    I’ve looked all over and can’t tell what kind of a labor law issue, if any, this is. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.


    Exclusion of a candidate for employment can cover many areas of labor law!

    Cite the US code section you are quoting!!

  3. #3
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    Jan 2008
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    20

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    If I cite the title and section it will identify the agency and the position, and I might not stay anonymous. I took great pains to camouflage my post, but if you can tell me how citing it will help you answer the question, I'll consider it.

  4. #4
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Because the law doesn't deal in abstract.

    If you want a precise answer, we have to have a precise question.

    At first blush, it is not illegal for an organization to set their own hiring policies including the educational requirements.

  5. #5
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    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Quote Quoting karnut2005
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    If I cite the title and section it will identify the agency and the position, and I might not stay anonymous. I took great pains to camouflage my post, but if you can tell me how citing it will help you answer the question, I'll consider it.

    Not necessary to post it then, I understand.

    Pay a visit to a law school law library of a College/University. Look up the Title and chapter etc. you have as a source in the United States Code Annotated (USCA). After such section you may find "case law" and legal encyclopedia references that may help you understand WHY you were denied employment??

    This was my reasoning in asking also. I would have looked it up just "online" though, to see what it stated, as a go from there for me!!

    Good luck!!


    BOR (Bill of Rights)

  6. #6
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    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    As you have presented the question, this is not a labor law issue of any kind.

    "Educational discrimination" is not illegal. They do not owe you a job and if your qualifications do not meet their standards, they are entitled to deny your application.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2008
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    20

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Quote Quoting cyjeff
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    Because the law doesn't deal in abstract.

    If you want a precise answer, we have to have a precise question.

    At first blush, it is not illegal for an organization to set their own hiring policies including the educational requirements.
    OK, how about this. If Title 00, U.S.C. § 1234 states:

    Sec. 1234. Qualifications of appointees

    (1) Widget maker - To be eligible to be appointed to a widget maker position at ABC Federal, a person must -

    (A) hold a high school diploma or its equivalent from a program approved by the Secretary

    (B) be licensed or certified as a widget maker in a State

    And if ABC Federal itself states:

    BASIC REQUIREMENTS. The basic requirements for employment as a widget maker are prescribed by: Public Law 12-345 codified in Title 00, U.S.C. § 1234. To qualify for appointment, all applicants for the position of widget maker at ABC Federal must meet the following:

    a. Education. Hold a high school diploma from a regionally accredited school.

    b. Licensure. Hold a full, current, and unrestricted license to practice widget making in a State, Territory, Commonwealth of the United States (e.g., Puerto Rico), or the District of Columbia.

    Joe Doakes has a 13-year-old GED and a full, current, and unrestricted license to practice widget making in his state. In addition, he is board certified in widget making, meaning that he has attained the highest level of competence in his profession. He applies for a widget maker position at ABC Federal but is deemed unqualified for the position because he has a GED, not a high school diploma.

    Asked how a master widget maker can be less qualified than an entry-level widget maker, an official of ABC Federal replies, "The qualification standards are clear and unwavering that you must have a high school diploma. This has been the standard since 1980, and no exceptions have been granted except for those who were employed before the standard went into effect.”

    There is no empirical or logical basis for ABC Federal's hiring policy or for its conclusion that Mr. Doakes is unqualified. You say, "It is not illegal for an organization to set their own hiring policies including educational requirements." It is if the policies are illegal. In the present case the policy is at best unfair because in some instances it excludes highly qualified candidates in favor of less qualified ones. That result is at odds with the agency's mandate to provide the highest quality of service to its recipients.

    So, what are the legal remedies or precedents here? Is it sufficient for the agency to claim simply that they've always done things that way and that they don't plan to change?

  8. #8
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    Jan 2008
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    20

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Quote Quoting BOR
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    Not necessary to post it then, I understand.

    Pay a visit to a law school law library of a College/University. Look up the Title and chapter etc. you have as a source in the United States Code Annotated (USCA). After such section you may find "case law" and legal encyclopedia references that may help you understand WHY you were denied employment??

    This was my reasoning in asking also. I would have looked it up just "online" though, to see what it stated, as a go from there for me!!
    I've spent two days searching online with results best described as zip, null, void, zilch, and empty set. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    As you have presented the question, this is not a labor law issue of any kind.

    "Educational discrimination" is not illegal. They do not owe you a job and if your qualifications do not meet their standards, they are entitled to deny your application.
    I didn't say they owed me a job. If it's not a labor issue, what kind of issue is it?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: What Kind of Labor Law Issue is This?

    Did you apply for the job in response to a posted vacancy? If so, did it state the minimum qualifications for the job? Did it state that graduation from an accredited program was required?

    Regardless, an employer can establish the requirements for its jobs, including a degree or training from an accredited program. You chose the institution from which you attained your degree. I assume that you knew it was not accredited. The employer is not required to change its requirements because of your choice or your belief that the training you received from the non-accredited institution is comparable to the training at an accredited institution.

    You asked the agency to grant you an exception and it declined. I see no employment or labor law issue in your situation. You simply don't meet the agency's requirements for employment.

    You indicate that you got your training in the 1980's. That's awhile ago. Maybe you should consider updating your training or acquiring a post doctorate degree at an accredited program or doing whatever is necessary for you to meet the educational requirements for this job and others that require a degree from an accredited program.

    Why do you believe that the "secretary and the agency" have different educational requirements for the position you sought? If the job requires a degree from an accredited program, some secretary - years ago, if the standard was imposed in the 1980's - decided that the doctoral degree had to be earned at an accredited institution.

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