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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Arizona

    My kids and I (8 y/o boy & 5 y/o girl) went to Walmart to grab some stuff about 12:30 pm 6/21/08. I needed to get some weights and what not, and I promised my kids a toy each for really helping me out this week. Any way, we got the stuff we needed and they saw McDonald's. We decided to grab some burgers. This was directly across the way from the check-stand where I purchased my stuff. Pushed the cart up to McD's and walked up to the register. Bought our stuff, ate lunch, and went to leave. (Approx 1:30 PM)

    I grabbed the cart and headed for the door. Walked through the little security sensors (No, they did not go off) and was almost to the door. A guy (50's-60's, gray hair, possibly glasses) asked for my receipt. I told him "No thank you" and kept walking. I attempted to walk out the door. He then tried to pull the cart out of my hands, and said you need to come with me to the security office. I told him I would be doing no such thing and asked him if he was accusing me of stealing. He said no. I then asked if he was detaining me. He said no. So I went to push the cart out of the door. He grabbed the cart again. I asked him if he would physically grab me. He said no. I told him to get a manager. He yelled at another gentleman (coincidentally, the gentleman in question was standing in line directly in front of me at McDonald's. His total was $4.02. I remember seeing it ring up on the register) This gentleman (not wearing a name tag) was late 40's - early 50's. He went and banged on a door right near the entrance that had a piece of paper taped on it saying "Employees Only" or something to that effect.

    I said to the first gentleman "Look, I've paid for every item in this cart. It is my property. I'm getting my items and I'm leaving." At this time time, a younger guy (Mid 20's, short cropped light brown or blond hair, possible earring, 200-225 lbs, 5'10" or so, no nametag) came out from the earlier mentioned door. At that point I reached in, picked up my items (1 40lb dumbell set, 2 sunshades for a car, toy puppy, super soaker, lifting gloves, and exercise mat) handed the kids their toys and went to walk out the door. At that point the employee (I think, he wasn't wearing any kind of name tag) that came out of the side door grabbed me by the biceps and tried to restrain me. I asked him to get his hands off me and please call the police. At this point, I was surrounded by about 10 employees (Again, I'm not 100% they were employees, since most had no WalMart badges on). My daughter (5) started bawling. I again asked if I was free to go. I walked just outside the entrance doors, and 4-5 employees circled me and prevented me from leaving. "no name tag" (the younger) again put his hands on my arms and prevented me from advancing. (I'm not clear if all were employees or not. There were several males of varying ages and one female, 30's-hispanic or native american. All wearing street clothes.

    "No nametag" (the younger) got out his cellphone and dialed 911. I was about 6 inches from his face. He got the dispatcher and advised them that he had an uncooperative customer and needed the police. I leaned in and said something to the effect "Ask the dispatcher if it is legal for you to physically detain me." I repeated this several times. He tells the dispatcher that NO ONE ever touched me. At this point an Asst. Manager (Mikki - 40's African American Female) walked up and asked what the problem was. I told her what was happening. "No nametag" says "I never touched him." I ignored him and asked the Mgr if there were video cameras at the entrance. She said yes, so I told her that I wasn't going to argue the point, we could just watch the video.

    At this point another employee went up to my daughter and grabbed the toy from her arms. This guy was probably mid 20's: crew cut style haircut, dark brown, or black hair. Athletic build, a little over 6ft tall. She was really crying by then. He said he was taking it to look up the transaction. 10 minutes went by, me surrounded by employees. Nobody really saying anything. I tried to take a picture of the guy who grabbed my arms, but he kept turning around in circles so I couldn't get it. I have one photo of the back of his head. The police still hadn't shown up. The employee who took my daughter's toy then returned with a receipt printout and handed it to Mikki. She looked at my stuff, said here's your receipt. See you later. No apologies, nothing.

    My kids were so upset that I just left. Maybe I should have waited for the cops, I don't know. When I got home I called the store and talked to the manager, Kathleen. I asked her if what happened to me was how they trained their employees. She said "It depends." I asked if there were videos. She said they had DVR's that were maintained for 30 days. Told me that the young guy (no name tag) was most likely a loss prevention employee named Jeremy.

    I do have a copy of the receipt they printed out. I jotted down the names of those with badges and some phone numbers the store manager gave me.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    138

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    There's really nothing you can do in this situation. it sounds as though the store followed policy; they do have the right to detain and question you since you are on private property. the most you may get out of this is an apology and a gift certificate. Next time, you should be more cooperative and just show them your receipt, thereby avoiding unpleasent situations like this one.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Toledo, OH
    Posts
    16,307

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    Concur with Mouser.

    If a store employee asks to see your receipt on the way out the door, you show the receipt or risk being detained as a shoplifter.

    If you have problems with such a policy, don't shop at stores that implement them.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    Here's what the Arizona Statute (13-805) says:

    C. A merchant, or a merchant's agent or employee, with reasonable cause, may detain on the premises in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time any person suspected of shoplifting as defined in subsection A of this section for questioning or summoning a law enforcement officer.

    D. Reasonable cause is a defense to a civil or criminal action against a peace officer, a merchant or an agent or employee of such merchant for false arrest, false or unlawful imprisonment or wrongful detention.


    I see nothing in what ragedracer posted that constitutes "reasonable cause". Now he may of left something out of his post, but we don't know that. I suspect not because Walmart obtained a record of his purchases and compared it to his purchases. Then they let him go.

    In a handful of States, when an EAS (electronic article surveillance) device is activated the shopper must stop, when approached and requested to do so, and show a reciept for purchases. Arizona has no such provision and the OP states that the device did not signal.

    It's a myth that people need to automaticly show their receipt when requested to do so, without probable cause for the retailer to stop them. In some shopping club operations such as Sams Club, BJ's or the like they have a clause written into their membeship contract that allows them to check reciepts. If you refuse they can cancel your membership.

    I do agree with LawResearcherMissy - "If you have problems with such a policy, don't shop at stores that implement them."

    I recommend this book (about 10 bucks) to members who frequently reply to posters questions regarding shoplifting. I'm not associated with this book in any way and receive no proceeds from it's sale. It's just good sound advice.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    You are not affiliated at all with that book? At all? Hmmmmmmm I beg to differ

  6. #6

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    No, I'm not. I feature the author on my IAPSC Author's web page, as I do other IAPSC authors. I receive no money or other consideration. I offer the page as a free service. It costs me money.
    Contact me privately and you can explain what you mean.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    Ok....will an email suffice? I just get irked when products are pushed when people don't need them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    Quote Quoting Security Consultant
    View Post
    I see nothing in what ragedracer posted that constitutes "reasonable cause". Now he may of left something out of his post, but we don't know that. I suspect not because Walmart obtained a record of his purchases and compared it to his purchases. Then they let him go.
    As I wrote is it exactly as it occurred.



    Quote Quoting Security Consultant
    View Post

    I do agree with LawResearcherMissy - "If you have problems with such a policy, don't shop at stores that implement them."
    I have been shopping at Wal-Mart for ~20 years. This has never happened to me before. So if I don't know before I enter the store, what then? I should submit to a voluntary search, that isn't really voluntary, because if I refuse, I give them reasonable cause to believe I'm a shoplifter. Also, by declining to show my receipt, I should be submitted to forceful detention, and be openly accused of shoplifting in front of who knows how many other customers? That doesn't seem right..

    rr

  9. #9
    panther10758 Guest

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    Neither does the 13 Billion dollars a year retailers lose to shoplfiting

  10. #10

    Default Re: Was What Happened to Me Legal?

    Quote Quoting ragedracer
    View Post
    As I wrote is it exactly as it occurred.





    I have been shopping at Wal-Mart for ~20 years. This has never happened to me before. So if I don't know before I enter the store, what then? I should submit to a voluntary search, that isn't really voluntary, because if I refuse, I give them reasonable cause to believe I'm a shoplifter. Also, by declining to show my receipt, I should be submitted to forceful detention, and be openly accused of shoplifting in front of who knows how many other customers? That doesn't seem right..

    rr
    You need to re-read what I wrote. I think you will find that I disagree with what happened to you.

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