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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    California
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    Lightbulb 22350 Unsafe Speed And Screeching Tires

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: CA California

    I was stopped for 22350 UNSAFE SPEED, but the officer's logic appears flawed. Below is what the officer's report read:

    "I was in full uniform, driving a marked Police vehicle, finishing a DUI arrest, when I heard a vehicle's tires screeching. I looked towards the intersection at 150 feet away, which is a sharp left turn. The vehicle was traveling at about 15 to 20 mph. I stopped the vehicle for CVC 22350(a) - UNSAFE SPEED."

    The posted speed limit is 25 mph, the roads were good and illuminated at night, no other cars on the road. There was no 'slow' sign before the turn. So HOW is what he stopped me for 22350 - Unsafe Speed?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    Quote Quoting joshsyoung
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    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: CA California

    I was stopped for 22350 UNSAFE SPEED, but the officer's logic appears flawed. Below is what the officer's report read:

    "I was in full uniform, driving a marked Police vehicle, finishing a DUI arrest, when I heard a vehicle's tires screeching. I looked towards the intersection at 150 feet away, which is a sharp left turn. The vehicle was traveling at about 15 to 20 mph. I stopped the vehicle for CVC 22350(a) - UNSAFE SPEED."

    The posted speed limit is 25 mph, the roads were good and illuminated at night, no other cars on the road. There was no 'slow' sign before the turn. So HOW is what he stopped me for 22350 - Unsafe Speed?

    You are correct, I would have issued a ticket for 23109(c). The officer should ammend it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    Quote Quoting sniper
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    You are correct, I would have issued a ticket for 23109(c). The officer should ammend it.
    Ammended? I never heard of an officer being able to ammend his citation, can they do that?

    There were other "findings" that ensued after the stop. Could it be reasonably argued that the officer did not have just cause for the stop and therefore all other evidence "findings" should be suppressed, because the speed (15mph) was below the limit (25 mph) and screeching tires are not a cause for stopping under 22350?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    Screeching tires is MORE than enough PC to affect a traffic stop. Even if the officer cited the wrong statute. In fact, the officer does not even HAVE to cite you for the infraction that caused the stop in the first place.

    In most states the officer can amend the charges ANYTIME prior to the hearing, as long as you receive notice of the amendment.

    But, remember, "unsafe speed" has NOTHING to do with the posted speed limit. It can be argued that spinning ones tires is "unsafe" no matter what the actual speed of the vehicle (like doing a "wheelie" on a motorcycle).

    Barry

  5. #5
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    California
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    Quote Quoting blewis
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    Screeching tires is MORE than enough PC to affect a traffic stop. Even if the officer cited the wrong statute. In fact, the officer does not even HAVE to cite you for the infraction that caused the stop in the first place.

    In most states the officer can amend the charges ANYTIME prior to the hearing, as long as you receive notice of the amendment.

    But, remember, "unsafe speed" has NOTHING to do with the posted speed limit. It can be argued that spinning ones tires is "unsafe" no matter what the actual speed of the vehicle (like doing a "wheelie" on a motorcycle).

    Barry
    That makes sense, in the general case. Of course we're talking about the finer points of law so the general case never applies...and that's why these threads are so interesting!

    Honing in on "screeching tires" as reason for stop (because that is the reason he looked over and made the stop), is ANY audible screeching sound justification for making a stop? A few particulars...the intersection has a 125 degree sharp turn across a concrete dip...if you were to stand at the intersection during rush hour you would hear screeching tires from every 5th car because of the natural dynamics between road and tire. I drive a sports car that had 5-day old low profile tires and it is NORMAL for them to screech at that turn. No BS, I was well within safe speed, totally in control of the vehicle, driving reasonably and did not endanger person or property. What about the screeching SOUND justifies the stop?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Michigan
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    I expect the officer's thinking goes something like this: "When you have full control of your vehicle when going around a turn at a safe speed, your tires don't squeal. When you turn at an excessive speed, the squealing of your tires indicates a loss of control of the vehicle. Had you turned more slowly your tires would not have squealed. Thus, you were driving an an unsafe speed when making the turn."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    Quote Quoting joshsyoung
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    Honing in on "screeching tires" as reason for stop (because that is the reason he looked over and made the stop), is ANY audible screeching sound justification for making a stop?
    In CA it can be. It's a subjective determination by the officer.

    Here is the standard in CA:

    No person shall engage in any motor vehicle exhibition of speed, or aid and abet in any such exhibition, upon any highway. This offense includes excessive acceleration so as to cause the tires to scream loudly and lose traction. (Grier (1964) 226 Cal.App.2d 360.)

    You also potentially could have been arrested and had your vehicle impounded.

    So, what other crimes were you charged with and what does your attorney say?

    - Carl

  8. #8
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: 22350 Unsafe Speed & Screeching Tires

    Quote Quoting joshsyoung
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    Ammended? I never heard of an officer being able to ammend his citation, can they do that?
    Yes they can.

    And I agree with Sniper. 22350 will be harder to articulate unless you bounced off a curb or lost control of the vehicle in some way.

    There were other "findings" that ensued after the stop. Could it be reasonably argued that the officer did not have just cause for the stop and therefore all other evidence "findings" should be suppressed, because the speed (15mph) was below the limit (25 mph) and screeching tires are not a cause for stopping under 22350?
    Uh oh ... what elese was found? And was it found as a result of his observation or a search of the vehicle later on?

    Note that a court may ultimately find that a stop and citation was perfectly lawful in the circumstances. The fact the officer cited the wrong section for the violation may not result in the suppression of anything.

    And if you were DUI, well, you're likely sunk in this argument because he had every reason to make the stop.

    - Carl

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