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  1. #1
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    Default California Penal Code 315, Keeping house of ill-fame

    The cops have been conducting sting operations in massage establishments and I got set up by a team of Vice cops. Is there anybody out there who has been charged with PC 315 with any good advice?

  2. #2
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    Default California House of Ill Repute

    For the record, that statute provides:
    Quote Quoting California Penal Code, Section 315.
    Every person who keeps a house of ill-fame in this state, resorted to for the purposes of prostitution or lewdness, or who willfully resides in such house, is guilty of a misdemeanor; and in all prosecutions for keeping or resorting to such a house common repute may be received as competent evidence of the character of the house, the purpose for which it is kept or used, and the character of the women inhabiting or resorting to it.

  3. #3
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    Default

    How were you "set up"?

    If you simply got caught doing what you do, that is not being "set up".

    - Carl

  4. #4
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    Default No owner in his right mind . .

    No day spa owner in his right mind would willfully want to open a whorehouse in his own name in full view of the public. The cops did a sting operation. Pay for a massage, proposition the girls, make sexual comments (with audio tape recording), and actually sexually assault the girls or jack off, then leave a $20 bill. And then come back and arrest the girls and use the mone as evidence. Carl, you know nothing about these cases. If you have anything helpful to say, then post something. If you are judgmental before you hear the facts, get the hell out of this forum.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: No owner in his right mind . .

    Quote Quoting defendantBefree
    No day spa owner in his right mind would willfully want to open a whorehouse in his own name in full view of the public.
    So you would think.

    The cops did a sting operation. Pay for a massage, proposition the girls, make sexual comments (with audio tape recording), and actually sexually assault the girls or jack off, then leave a $20 bill. And then come back and arrest the girls and use the mone as evidence.
    Sounds like you - or the girls - would have a strong defense.

    Carl, you know nothing about these cases.
    Ah! So you have my personnel record, then?

    Sorry, but I do.

    If you are judgmental before you hear the facts, get the hell out of this forum.
    Where did I "judge"? I asked how you were "set up" as you had not provided the "facts". Then I commented that simply being caught does not equate to a set up. Far too many people claim that they were "set up" because the cops simply caught them in the act or asked them if they were guilty.

    Maybe you need to take a couple of deep breaths before you leap at someone who merely asked a question.

    - Carl

  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    Default

    Sorry Carl for snapping at you. It just seemed to me that your response belied a little prejudice and a wink wink nod nod type of attitude to my case. Unfortunately, many time juries are the same way and they are quick to convict people with cursory show trials full of innuendo and hearsay and a marked $20 bill enough to convict people of sex crimes. The problem with these prosecutions is that, if the undercover cop did not initiate lewd activity inside of the massage rooms, there would not even have been a crime committed. If the cops were propositioned by the girl, then I can imagine a charge, but the way these sting operations go down it does not seem fair for the undercover cops to innappropriately proposition the girls with suggestive behavior.

  8. #8
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    Apology accepted. And thank you for calming down.

    Okay ...

    It is generally unacceptable - and, depending on the circumstances, could be unlawful - for the officer to initiate or participate in a sex act. It CAN fall into the realm of entrapment, though it does not often do so. It would almost certainly be a violation of policy even if not a criminal act.

    If the officers did indeed masturbate and ejaculate, or "assault" the girls, I suspect that they (and the DA) are not going to want this to GO to trial as that information can be very embarassing for the individual officers AND the department.

    However, if the officers did NOT do that (and I suspect your only word on what the officers did was from the girls), then you may want to consider a deal.

    You need an attorney of you own - seperate from the girls.

    Additionally, no matter how it turns out, I would highly recommend you lay the law down to your employees regarding this behavior because, apparently, they felt relatively comfortable in going along with whatever was suggested thus putting you at risk.

    Where I have worked (two jurisdictions where these massage parlors/shops have existed), we were able to bust EVERY ONE (there were three) of them for acts of prostitution ... two of the three for drugs as well, and two of the three on more than one occasion. And all three operated in the daytime.

    The business you have chosen to involve yourself in has a shady reputation even if that is not what you intended. Right now you need an attorney to save your fanny, and then - if the business is permitted to reain in operation - you need to provide greater oversight to the employees.

    Good luck.

    - Carl

  9. #9
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    Default

    Carl,

    Thanks for a very helpful opinion from a very knowledgable contributor. I looked like an idiot earlier because I had no idea who you were.

    I do know that if one is to study the history of law and civilization in general, this kind situation has existed across millenia and throughout all cultures. Overall, most of the females who work in the massage therapy field that I have worked with are rather vulnerable and economically disadvantaged single mother types. They would be no match for a typical hardened Vice squad.

    To me it seems more reasonable to make arrests and file cases that involve corrupt massage providers who hustle the patrons with the intent to commit prostitution.

    The place I have is a legitimate massage establishment that also services female clients, and we also have a male massage therapist on staff. In my opinion, any business can be taken down if infiltrated by a group of undercover officers posing as customers who return over and over through a period of months for the purpose of gaining confidence, and then try to turn the treatment sessions toward a sexual direction. Most of these gals are friendly and tolerant by nature, and maybe they thought these were nice guys or something, and they did not resist their advances as vigorously as they should have. Then boom! Arrests are made, three dozen guys bust in wearing kevlar helmets and MP5 sub-machine guns, ski masks, the media is contacted, etc. The whole thing turns into a big circus. It seems better to discreetly find out exactly find who is breaking the law, then issue arrest warrants when necessary to those offending individuals.

    Thanks again Carl for an enlightening contribution to this interesting site.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Quoting defendantBefree
    They would be no match for a typical hardened Vice squad.
    No pun intended?

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