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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Can you list even one 'gift' from your constitution (or ours because I live in Canada) that wasn't already yours before the constitution 'gave' it to you? I can tell you of some rights I have that the government has ommitted mention of. For one, I have the right not to kill foriegn people, but the government might want to conscript me for an army to fight for ideals that I don't believe in--so they haven't offered the right not to kill.
    That is your problem. You want to waffle between the laws restricting you or being prohibitive and over to your rights. I present you with laws that are protective and you alter your attack and come from the "natural rights" position. If you cannot stay on track, this will become a useless discussion. But, to answer you; the constitution does not "give" you anything. It enumerates your natural rights (although some would say not all of them) and by doing so, protects those rights. The laws neither grant rights nor remove them. It attempts to prevent anybody from trying to prevent you from exercising your rights.

    and as always, you can refuse to kill. It is your choice. One would think that since you have recieved so much from your government that you would be willing to defend that government. Apparently you believe everything in life if free. It isn't. If you do not want what your government provides you, then rebuke your government and go it without use of any governmentally provided benefits.




    "Man is born free: then constitutions take freedom away, under the guise of enshrining it." - Russell Twyce
    Uh, no, I just explained why this statement is incorrect.

    You need to stay on track. If you want to speak of law, then do so. If you want to speak of rights, then do so.
    The law does not restrict your rights anymore than neccessary so you do not infringe upon anothers rights. It is a balance but you seem to think you are entitled to more than anybody else. That is exactly what the laws are intending to prevent.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Remedy for Flaw # 1 – Remove prohibitions from actions and place society’s response onto the effects of actions instead—by installing ‘protections’. EI. The act of murder no longer is illegal, BUT society will put a murderer in protective custody to protect other potential victims. This is to the same general effect as ‘punishing’ for ‘the crime of murder’, but it is based on justice ACTUALLY protecting people.
    Uh, that is what we currently do with murderers. You can call it whatever you want but our laws currently provide for this exact action.

    Remedy for Flaw # 2 – Law has no right to rule, but each person does have the right of self-defense. When each citizen lends this right to the government, then justice DOES have the right to protect the people.
    A non-statement

    Remedy for Flaw # 3 – Protective justice would do what even Lincoln didn’t accomplish in freeing all slaves. Eliminating law would finally end feudal serfdom.
    No, eliminating law would be anarchy. It would have nothing to do with feudalism. It would be more like the movie "Escape from New York".

    Remedy for Flaw # 4 – Law requires universal acceptance to survive. All people have to think that law applies to them. What will happen when there are more people (like me) who say “Law exists only in your mind: it does not have power in mine.” To make laws apply to us (me), you have to break my human right of having my own beliefs. (Note—I don’t consider myself ‘above the law’: law doesn’t exist in any space respective to me.)
    No. We have people that believe the laws do not apply to them now. We typically call them "prisoners".


    Remedy for Flaw # 5 – Protective justice eliminates the necessity for an imaginary being (a law). Instead, the police/courts are dealing with what actually happened to the victim. (Fuller Explanation—Visualize the law of ‘assault’ as a cocoon of saran wrap around your body. If I poke you in the eye, the law sees me as bending the plastic into your eye and it charges me with damage I did to the bubble. How did your eye get hurt? Did my finger push the other side of the law into it? Doesn’t that mean the assault law assaulted you.)
    You are totally ignoring something. The criminal law is the bubble, fine. Those that break that law are punished to urge them to not do that again. Then we have the civil laws that are designed to recompense those that were actually injured. Both are intended to be deterrents to cause the person to not break the law again but the second also attempts to replace what the injured has lost.

    Remedy for Flaw # 6 – Protective justice removes the target. Flaw # 6 is probably the biggest reason why I call law a ‘crime against humanity’. Every time a Columbine or Virginia Tech happens, when a malcontent commits a politically motivated vandalism, and each crime that any person commits just to spite authority, the rule-of-law has been directly responsible for the wrong happening to an innocent person. Law is heinous!
    You have such a screwed up perspective that I doubt you will ever understand that you are supporting those killers in their actions.

    You need to understand that there will always be somebody that will not respect and follow the laws of the gevernment. That is why we punish them. That does not mean the laws in any way caused their actions. Their own demented mind and the total lack of repect for anothers rights is what caused them to kill. They have substituted themselves for the true laws and have judged those they have killed yet you somehow support thier actions when they themselves are acting in a manner exactly like what you complain about. Get your stories straight.


    With this, I will end my input in this thread. It serves no purpose for me. Arguing with a person that has such a perversion concerning law and personal rights only causes me to wonder if I am speaking to the next Ted Kasczinski or David Koresh.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Quote Quoting jk
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    No you have not. We (as citizens) have given our government the right to make laws and enforsce them.
    How did you legally steal the deed to my freedom, that you supposedly then fenced to the government?

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Quote Quoting jk
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    With this, I will end my input in this thread. It serves no purpose for me. Arguing with a person that has such a perversion concerning law and personal rights only causes me to wonder if I am speaking to the next Ted Kasczinski or David Koresh.
    So go girl, I won't miss your Jurasic era mentality. Have you wondered why Teds and Davids and other sociopaths (perhaps the better term is lawopaths) arise? Is it because they are on the extreamist fringe of a rising groundswell of public opinion? Have you noted the declining respect for the law that people on the street exhibit? Do they cheer for the police as they write a speeding ticket, or do they scoff that 'it must be near to quota day'? Perhaps jk, you should take your head from the sand and look around. The future of mankind is freedom from the oppression of an archaic law concept.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Look, I'm the first one to protest about the government getting involved in the PERSONAL lives of the citizens. The role of government needs to be far more limited than it is today. The only thing they need to do is make sure their rights are protected and their private information is to remain private. The government has no right to strip away our personal liberties, and keep an eye on our every movement. Things like the "Patriot" act make me sick. Everybody who voted for it needs to be removed from office. They broke their oath to uphold the constitution.

    That being said, I would not support getting rid of the entire government. The do serve some purpose.

  6. #36
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    578

    Default Re: Abolish Law

    How did you legally steal the deed to my freedom, that you supposedly then fenced to the government?
    There is no such thing as freedom. There are simply differing degrees of liberty.

    Just as you have no freedom to select your parents, neither do you have the freedom to select the society or sovereign you are born unto. Some things just are. Once an adult, you have the liberty to go elsewhere, but no suitable destination is ever guaranteed to exist. If you choose to stay and not obey the exising laws of society you become an outlaw, and become subject to the will of that society by way of its laws.

    Under natural law, a man has the right to any thing. The problem arises when more than two men occupy the same planet. Your liberty then ends at my nose. Most of us agree upon that. That agreement leads to a social contract. By our will we empower government and enact laws to better ensure and protect our agreed upon limited liberty by penalizing and/or removing those who do not comply.

    What gives us the right to "steal your freedom"? Our collective will. You may call it slavery or anything else you choose. But you are trying to claim something that doesn't exist(freedom).

    There is only one way to achieve absolute freedom, and that is death.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Quote Quoting jk
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    There was another poster on here awhile back that was as clueless about life as you seem to be. Maybe somebody will recall his name so the two of you can discuss various subjects and try to impress each other because I believe you have failed to make any positive impressions here. He spoke as imprecise as you.
    Perhaps your brain is just so stuffed with obsolete rhetoric that you can't stretch it around a new concept.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Quote Quoting 4eyedbuzzard
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    There is no such thing as freedom. There are simply differing degrees of liberty.
    That may be true in the fuedal serfdom of today, but what I can envision through protective justice IS freedom and it's achievable. I'm an optimist and I believe people will throw off the illogical tyranny of law. Communism fell through the will of the people and law will also fail. Don't you think that discussing the successor system might ease the inevitable transition.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Quote Quoting blueeagle
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    That being said, I would not support getting rid of the entire government. The do serve some purpose.
    Where have I suggested collapsing the whole government? Of course people need an administration and we also need justice/police. The change to protective justice only requires the revision of the underlaying theory and amending job descriptions/duties to match.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Abolish Law

    Quote Quoting Twyce
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    Have you wondered why Teds and Davids and other sociopaths (perhaps the better term is lawopaths) arise? .
    I see Twyce appears to be on a first name basis with the named criminals.

    Just for the (twisted) fun of it, here is an excerpt from another website:http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html. It seems many of the attributes can be seen in Twyce's personality. Some of this is determined from reviewing his websites and other sites not controlled by him.


    <H3>Profile of the Sociopath


    This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.
    • Glibness and Superficial Charm
    • Manipulative and Conning
      They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
    • Grandiose Sense of Self
      Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
    • Pathological Lying
      Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
    • Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
      A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
    • Shallow Emotions
      When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
    • Incapacity for Love
    • Need for Stimulation
      Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.
    • Callousness/Lack of Empathy
      Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
    • Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
      Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
    • Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
      Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
    • Irresponsibility/Unreliability
      Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed
      .
    • Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
      Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
    • Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
      Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.
    • Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
      Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
    </H3>

    HHmmmm! I wonder........

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