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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2

    Unhappy Defenses To Following Too Closely

    Ontario- Canada
    Hi- I really appreciate the ability to run my defenses by you folks!

    First Defense: a technicality really, but the officer has written all number 5's to look like the letter "S". This includes my driver's licence and the traffic reg. I am cited under. There is an example of a lower case "s" in the ticket and the numbers really do look identical.

    Second Defense: stopped at a light with 3 or 4 cars in front of me.
    Light turns green, first 2 or 3 cars move along at normal speed. Car in front of me is moving at half speed, and I see her looking down at the seat beside her, not at the road.

    I honk at her to move along and she decides to stop cold in the middle of the road (this is the faster passing lane).

    There was no warning and she stopped very quickly. My defense is what I will term "the reasonably prudent man defense" since we are expected to be accelerating out of a stop, I could not cover the brake, and since a reasonably prudent driver could not anticipate a car stopping dead in the middle of a lane.

    There was a witness who confirms this - apparently, the officer told me she "dropped her purse".

    I'm curious as to what you think my chances are.
    Danno007

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Following Too Close- Defenses?

    Were you clear of the intersection, or still within it when you rear-ended her?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Following Too Close- Defenses?

    If it were me...
    The woman should have had her license suspended and her car impounded under Ontario's strict new "stunt" laws (see highlighted section below). She would also be facing a minimum $2,000 fine. You need to speak to the Crown attorney at the court house listed on the back of your ticket. You need to explain that you honked your horn because she was interfering with your ability to proceed. She then (obviously) slammed on her brakes to make you hit her and your witness will back you up on that. If you press the Crown to file a charge against her, he may choose to offer a dismissal of YOUR charge instead (ie. "wash his hands of the whole thing"). You won't know if you don't try.

    Definition, “stunt”
    3. For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “stunt” includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:
    1. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.
    2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.
    3. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.
    4. Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.
    5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.
    6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the driver’s seat.
    7. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.
    8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
    i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,
    ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the driver’s sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,
    iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or
    iv. making a left turn where,
    (A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;
    (B) at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and
    (C) the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 3.



    Even if her "stunt" couldn't be proven, she was, at least, guilty of Careless Driving. She even told the officer she was pissin' around with her purse which would warrant a charge of Careless.
    130. Every person is guilty of the offence of driving carelessly who drives a vehicle or street car on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $200 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months, or to both, and in addition his or her licence or permit may be suspended for a period of not more than two years. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 130.

    Book
    P.S. Your first defense won't work
    P.S.S. Coincidental "nics" (Bookm/Danno) LOL

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,437

    Default Re: Following Too Close- Defenses?

    I don't know anything about Canadian law but I do know that if our poster was NOT following too closely, then he wouldn't have had the wreck!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Following Too Close- Defenses?

    Quote Quoting seniorjudge
    View Post
    ... if our poster was NOT following too closely, then he wouldn't have had the wreck!
    Correct! But it wouldn't have happened if the lady didn't slam on her brakes either. So which illegal act caused the wreck? It was the womens illegal actions that actual caused it.

    I don't usually defend a guy who is following too close, but the laws here are very clear with respect to this scenario. She broke this "new" law and she should be subject to the penalties associated with it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Defenses To Following Too Closely

    Thanks for the notes folks!

    I had not yet cleared the intersection- I was still some distance behind it when I hit her- say 20 metres.

    My point before is that you can't both accelerate and cover the brake- especially when the other cars had moved on ahead of her.

    I agree that at the time it really did seem as if her stopping cold in the middle of the road with a green light and nothing in front of her was a response to me honking. I appreciate hearing about that new law. Worth a try!

    I should have pursued a charge for her at the time, but you know how the ol' "being in shock" thing is.

    Cheers,
    Danno007

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