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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    7

    Default Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    I was divorced from my ex-wife about 6 years ago; the court order (California) gave us joint legal custody and her primary physical custody. I had to move out of state for work several years ago. The original visitation order expired about 3 years ago when my child started school, and until recently, my ex and I were able to work relatively amicably on visitation (as per the court's directions). Now, things have turned ugly almost overnight (she wanted the child for Christmas, but its my turn), and my ex is threatening to cut off visitation. I know that I probably made a mistake in not trying to get the order revised, but I wanted to be able to do all of this as reasonable adults. What do I need to do here - do I need to travel to California and file a new visitation request? If so, is it something that I can do by myself rather than through a family law attorney? I'm fairly sure I'll win in the end (I don't want anything unreasonable - just 1/2 the vacation time), but I want to make sure I do this right. I'd appreciate anyone's time or advice. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Officially across the country from where I've been all my life
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    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    First of all, why did your visitation order have an expiration date? I don't think I've seen such a beast.

    Does the child still reside in CA? If so, you will have to go back to CA to modify the visitation order however again, orders don't usually have an expiration date.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    7

    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    I guess it doesn't technically have an expiration date, but there's a line in the order that states: "Upon the minor child reaching the age in which she should start school, the parties shall adjust the visitation appropriately by mutual agreement. If they cannot reach an agreement, this shall constitute a change of circumstances justifying a modification by the Court of the visitation schedules set forth herein."

    I also should have added that the details of the visitation were written to address the situation at that time - child was not in school yet, so my visitation was one week per month, every other Christmas and thanksgiving, etc.

    Child still lives in CA, and she attends one of the all-year schools that have 4 breaks throughout the year. All I'm looking for is to have something in writing that awards visitation for 1/2 the vacation time and that spells out a Christmas schedule. She has a great time with me, and we have a very good relationship. In your opinion, how long would it take (how many months or court appearances) to complete this? Obviously, I would have to come in from out of state for it.

    thanks again.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    From what you say, the order should continue until either you agree to a new schedule, or a court orders a new schedule. Do you want to modify the schedule, or just enforce it (putting the onus on your ex- to seek modification)?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    7

    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    Ultimately, I want it modified to reflect the current situation - that my daughter is in school, and the 1 week per month doesn't really work now. the reason for all of this happening now is that for the last 3 years, I haven't had my daughter for Christmas holiday. I get the odd numbered years, but was out of the country in '05, so I missed that year. her mother was unwilling to give me '04 or '06, and called me 12 hours before my daughter was to arrive here, telling me that it was too traumatic for my daughter to come here, since she was now used to having Christmas in CA. Long story short, my daughter is here now (and doing fine), but the relationship with the ex has turned (or reverted to) very ugly literally overnight. Her new spouse has threatened to involve himself in this as well, so it doesn't really look good for easy resolution at this point. I just want something official, that gives me the ability to see my daughter for more than a week at a time. After reading quite a few of the posts on various forums, I'm not seeing where 1/2 vacation time is unreasonable - am I right on that?
    thanks.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Officially across the country from where I've been all my life
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    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    In order for you to modify your visitation, you'll need to go back to the court where the original order was signed and do an Order to Show Cause to modify visitation. Also, you'll need to schedule an appointment with the mediator as this will be required. The paperwork will be rather easy, it's a matter of getting it together, getting it filed and having her served... you may need to enlist the help of an attorney service (minimally) or an attorney to get that handled, or that will be your first visit to CA.

    If the courthouse in question is flexible, you can often times have the mediation appt. and the OSC hearing in the same day (you'll have to beg for an 8 or 8:30 appt.) and then make sure that that day is available for a hearing (second visit to CA). If you guys can come to an agreement, the mediator will write it up and send it up.. it shall become your new visitation schedule. If not, then count on there being a couple of more hearings until it all gets pounded out.

    A few more questions:
    How old is the child now?
    In what state are you?
    Are you prepared to foot the travel expenses?
    As far as how long???? Depends on how long your ex wants to drag this out. Best case scenario... a couple of months. Worse case? Endless amounts of time. As for your ex's new husband.. he CAN'T, by law involve himself in this matter, as he is not a party to the action, and caution your wife about a little thing called third party interference. Judges don't like that.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    7

    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    thanks for the information. to answer your questions, she's now 8, I'm in Texas, and willing to do the travel and expenses.

    I would like to get it resolved with the mediator, but don't really see that happening - I think its a spite issue on the other end at this point. I'm assuming that a mediator can say "if this goes in front of the judge, generally the outcome is..."

    You mentioned that I have to return to where the order was originally signed - the exact same courthouse or any courthouse in the county? (there are several).

    With no issues of abuse, neglect, etc or missed child support payments, is it reasonable to assume - in your opinion - that a court would look favorably on a request for 50/50 visitation during school vacation times?

    thanks again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Officially across the country from where I've been all my life
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    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    What has visitation been like since you've moved?

    Same exact courthouse, because that's where the file is located.

    The mediators are usually rather poker faced, may (maybe) give you their opinion, but can't dare tell you what the judge's opinion is because they don't know. Shoot, I sit 5 feet from the judge and can't tell you what he's thinking or how he will rule sometimes.

    If you're willing to foot the travel expenses (which I think is fair - you created the distance), then your request for half of the vacation time shouldn't be TOO unfair, especially since she's in year round school (LA County?) and she has large blocks of time off, but what concerns me is how much you've visited with her in the last few years.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    755

    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    At minimum, you should get a week in Feb OR April, and at least a week during the summer.
    I can't really see how her lawyer could possibly drag it out once you get to the courthouse. As far as cases go, a new visitation schedule, with someone who is willing to pick up travel expenses is a no brainer.
    You have a "significant change in circumstance" to file for a mod.
    Make sure you document how you have tried to come to a reasonable schedule with Mom, to no avail. Also, make sure you have documented evidence when your child, and how often she has been with you. That's in case her lawyer decides to play the "too traumatic for the child" card.
    I'd call a lawyer, and ask that he/she be able to file, and get a date for you. Would probably cost less then driving/flying out there yourself.
    As far as getting a lawyer for the hearing, up to you. I guess if you have the $500 minimum to pay it, go for it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Officially across the country from where I've been all my life
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    Default Re: Expired Court Order - Visitation Threatened

    How can an attorney drag it out? Easy.. ask for a continuance and another one, and another one. Even the more stern judge will allow for one or 2 before they get irritated.

    The judge may decide that more than 1 sit down with the mediator will be necessary, especially if in his report the mediator says so. There's another continuance.

    A focused evaluation.. they'll need to pay for it, have it done, then wait for the report... drags it out longer.

    I've seen people get rather creative. This morning I had a case where the litigants were in on their 4th hearing on the same issue.

    How booked is the courtroom? They still have to find a date that works for all parties involved. The OP may find himself in a position where he may actually have to postpone. People get quite creative.

    Let's not forget that it may then take several months to get a signed order.

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