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  1. #11
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    In my hypothetical, the employee who opts out of union membership would not receive the benefits provided by the CBA, but whatever benefits the employer offers, if any, to non-union members.

    We're not talking about what the law is by now, but what we think it should be.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    Thank you. I did not catch that when I first read your statement.
    It is a very complex system and I can only say that I received much more as a member of a union for federal employers than I could have imagined.

    There are many issues that make being a professional and a union member complicated, like a walk-out. I never experienced that as a union member. As a non-union member, required as a manager in a state institution (I was not able to be a part of a bargaining unit) I was faced with a walk out and taking care of 28 patients by myself.

    Daniel has not returned so I have no idea what he meant by saying
    "A right to circumvent unions for political purposes for work state"?

  3. #13
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    Quote Quoting deadlock
    View Post

    I think as a member of a union you can legally choose not to pay dues for anything other than costs of the union collective bargaining.
    You can refuse to pay towards any political work performed by the union. That is why my union (IBEW) has a seperate fund that you would choose to pay into if desired. It removes any other withdrawal in part.

    BTW; we have a no strike (which would include a walk out) clause in our contract. We have found it to be damaging to both parties and ultimately fails to provide the intended purpose. Please understand that my union situation is not "typical" as most see a union. Our local has a contract with approximately 50 contractors in our jurisdiction and I can literally work for any one of them and be afforded the same benefits, work rules, and pay scale. One of the greatest bene's is that my health and welfare bene;'s and any pension or savings plan is not employer specific and travels with me to any of those contractors. As a matter of fact, due to the national level of the IBEW, I can work for any IBEW associated contractor nationwide and have the bene payments returned to my local and put into my retirement accounts and pay my H & W financial obligations.

    The one that's there, is there until it's voted out. So since you can't choose your union, I don't believe you should be forced to join it.
    this gets back to the choice of the majority. The union involved is who it is. It would be similar to saying you should be able to choose what insurer you employer subscribes to. Of course you cannot do that if you simply want BCBS instead of Hartford insurance.

    But it's a completely different culture now and a lot of what was acceptable then, is no longer socially acceptable now.
    Do you really think so? I work around many union and non-union tradesman. I see many of the non-union tradesman coerced to perform unsafe actions and fear loss of employment should they protest. Many companies I see are eliminating benefits left and right totally at the employers discretion. Most of you have seen the abuse of workers in terms of lack of respect in areas such as at least some minimal notification of overtime, no lunch periods, or ever and always changing work rules. A CBA simply puts rules in place so everybody is aware of what the rules are. An employer cannot simply walk up and say, "well, today, you are not going to get lunch" or " I need you to go out and buy $5000 worth of tools so you can continue to work. I am tired of buying the tools required for me to be a contractor" and such. It is not only safety and benefits but it affords a modicum of respect for the employee.

    I have seen how quickly an employer can revert to the old standards, even if it is still illegal. Without the contnued fight of the unions, I have no doubt the American way of life would erode very quickly (like it isn;t already).

    Wal-Mart is a perfect expample of how quickly an employer will revert to pre-union style employment. (yes, I do not like how Wal-Mart treats their employees.) Remember the "life insurance on the employees with Walmart as the bene debacle"? The "hey, I know you are off the clock but can you go and finish this before you leave the strore and I am not going to pay you scam"?

    They have attempted to evade financial responsibility for on the job injuries from what was related to me by some Wal-Mart employees.

    Their actions at the recently union organized and subsequently closed store in Canada, from what I understand, may violate NLRB regs if it were an American store.

    They used to (maybe still do, I don;t know) refer to their employees as their "family". If my family treated me like Wal-Mart treats their employees, I would disown them.

    It would not take long for things to go downhill very fast should that little thorn known as the union labor supporters dissappear.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    That's your opinion. Mine is different.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    That's your opinion. Mine is different.
    opinion?

    The only part of that entire post that was opinion was the last line. Everything else is factual. The anecdotal evidence supports my opinion.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    I'm not going to keep arguing this. I really doubt that if employees were allowed to choose whether or not they could join a union, suddenly the FLSA and the laws regarding workers comp and unemployment and other protections would be repealed.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    Where did the OP go?

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    I'm not going to keep arguing this. I really doubt that if employees were allowed to choose whether or not they could join a union, suddenly the FLSA and the laws regarding workers comp and unemployment and other protections would be repealed.
    Sorry cbg. Didn't really mean to argue with you. I tend to look to your more as person I can learn from and debate (as opposed to an argument). It is just that I see this situation as eroding the rights and benefits my father and his forefathers have fought for. In some cases, men were even killed to try to stop unionization.

    No, I do not believe anything will happen suddenly. Change tends to be more subdued, even undertaken covertly yet intentionally. What happens is people wake up one day and look around and say "when did this happen?". By then, it is too late.



    moburkes
    Where did the OP go?
    Don't know. I was too busy driving my own agenda.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    And forcing an employee into a union, instead of allowing them to choose, is what they died for?

    Somehow I see that as contrary to the general premise this country was based on.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: 'Right to Work' and Right to Employment

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    And forcing an employee into a union, instead of allowing them to choose, is what they died for?

    Somehow I see that as contrary to the general premise this country was based on.
    I understand your point. It is to bad we do not live in a perfect world. We simply disagree as to the best way to improve it with the limitations we currently have.

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