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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    67

    Question Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    On memorial day weekend (Friday) on my way to Vegas from LA I got a ticket from highway patrol in Victorville. The speed limit was 70 and I merged from the slowest lane (3 lane freeway) into the middle lane. Then I saw the police car at the leftmost lane but passed it nevertheless on cruis control doing 71-73 MPH. I was pulled over and cited for 80MPH, a gross exaggeration.

    My first defense: Victorville is about 150 miles (2 or more hours depending on traffic) from my home and I have read about a great motion – change of venue. I am going to move the case to LA and I am sure the officer won’t show up, especially since he was friendly with me and accepted my argument that I was just going with the flow.

    If he does show up: I had two passengers and a dog in my car. I had never had a speeding ticket before. I could clearly see the police car even many cars back. The only reason for speeding was conservative driving. Cars behind me hadn’t seen the policeman and since it was a holiday weekend and people had just left a heavy traffic, they were agitated with anyone driving slowly and would pull up very close. To avoid this I speeded up a little. I wasn’t afraid to pass the police car because assumed he would understand the situation and that the flow was going faster than I was. His main argument has to do with ego – he said “but you passed me.”

    I have requested full disclosure of any info concerning my ticket. They claim the speed was determined by pacing. That should weaken the officer’s clain since he was able to “pace” me only AFTER I passed him. Yeah right, and I did 80! I hope the judge will see that the problem here is ego, not speed. My motive for speeding after passing the policeman is farcical.

    New CA law allows vehicles to travel 3 MPH over speed limit (as of July 1, 2007).

    Anyway, I think I have a solid case. If I lose, I will appeal. Do you have any other suggestions for me? I have already requested the procedures used in pacing via registered mail.


    I have also received the second speeding ticket just today. This one is legitimate, but I was rushing to Dell to get a laptop for school because a great deal was about to end (I have printed website info and told the officer about it also). The officer was cool and said that he doesn’t have a problem with that and that I should discuss that with the judge. What do you think are my chances here? I think that if he was not being a hypocrite, then the judge shouldn’t mind about it either. I was doing allegedly 85 on a 65 zone (in LA). Also, I think he wrote down the wrong code (rookie) – 22349(a)VC instead of the 22356(B)VC one (as on my other ticket).

    I hope I can get some constructive feedback. If these tickets go through, my insurance might not be affordable for me. Another argument against my speeding could be that my car is only a 4 cylinder civic, far from a sports car.


    Also, you guys are wrong about traffic school after being found guilty. You ALWAYS have the right to it. Just mention California Vehicle Code 41501 and you’ll be set. Some judges don’t know about this either, so you’d be better off to bring a copy of the code.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    California
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    1,206

    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    Your change of venue idea ain't gonna fly. As I understand it, you must request that at the time you're cited and I'm pretty sure you can only request that it be held at the county seat or the nearest court in the county (you were cited in) to where you live or work (your choice). If that's wrong, it's close. Carl will clear up anything I've said that isn't quite right.

    As far as your defense for the first ticket, if you do decide to drive to Victorville and try your luck in court....I think you will be bitterly disappointed. You were charged with going 80MPH...not 73MPH and your excuses fail to impress judges every day. I would suggest before you decide to spend a bunch of money and time, you go to a traffic court session in your area and watch how it works....it will be an "eye opener".

    On the second citation, you might prevail depending upon the magnitude of the mistake in the particular code you are accused of violating. I haven't looked those up so I don't know but that might be legitimate.

    With regard to traffic school, many jurisdictions will not allow it if you go to trial (my court does allow it but most don't). CVC41501 doesn't say that the judge has to let you attend (he may let you...big difference). Let us know how you come out on the whole thing!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    67

    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    I don't understand you. Please edit. Yes, I am going to request a location near my county - LA.

  4. #4
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    Oct 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    I don't think you understand much about the entire situation; but you soon will.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    67

    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    OK, thank you for editing, it makes better sense now. I am not lying - I was doing 73MPH, only 3 MPH over. I did not ask for change of venue at the time because 1.I didn't see where the court was, only realized later, and 2.I didn't know I could ask about such a thing.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    67

    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    There has to be a better legal forum than this. I post my question days ago and still no answer. Sucks.

    And oh yes, I CAN get a change of venue. I have already sent the request to the judge. Don't be so negative if you are not even sure. I am distressed as it is.

  7. #7
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    You got an answer, and you didn't post a new question. More to the point, this is a free service so it doesn't behoove you to be a whiny brat. I am sure you can find a "psychic" who will happily take your money to answer questions you haven't asked yet.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    Quote Quoting Excelsius
    My first defense: Victorville is about 150 miles (2 or more hours depending on traffic) from my home and I have read about a great motion – change of venue. I am going to move the case to LA and I am sure the officer won’t show up, especially since he was friendly with me and accepted my argument that I was just going with the flow.
    No, you will not be eligible for a change of venue unless you can argue that you cannot get a fair trial in San Bernardino County where the citation was issued. I can't imagine you can make that argument.

    Second, Los Angeles County does not have jurisdiction in the matter so why would they want to take the time to hear the matter?

    Third, you can ask for a change of location within the county of issuance pursuant to whatever rules that county has. or, you can ask to be cited into the county seat of the county of jurisdiction at the time of the citation.

    In this case you cannot get your trial moved to Los Angeles.

    I have requested full disclosure of any info concerning my ticket.
    How did you do this? Unless it was made in a proper request for discovery, you might not receive anything.

    They claim the speed was determined by pacing. That should weaken the officer’s clain since he was able to “pace” me only AFTER I passed him.
    Huh? Well, if he was doing 65 and you passed by him, he can certainly speed up to estimate your speed.

    Plus, CHP officers are radar certified. This also means they have training and experience in visual estimation of speed.

    I hope the judge will see that the problem here is ego, not speed.
    If he was doing 70 and you passed him, it's going to be tough to show that you were not guilty of the offense. You can try and argue ego or bias all you want. Unless the judge thinks that 3 MPH over is a chicken poo-poo speed
    to cite for and finds reasonable doubt, you are likely done.

    My motive for speeding after passing the policeman is farcical.
    The state does not have to show motive for a speed violation.

    New CA law allows vehicles to travel 3 MPH over speed limit (as of July 1, 2007).
    Please cite the relevant law. I haven't heard of any such thing.

    Anyway, I think I have a solid case. If I lose, I will appeal.
    Lots of people think they do. If your case is heard by a commissioner, you can appeal to a judge pursuant to the rules in San Bernardino County. After that you would generally need to hire an attorney at many times more than the cost of the citation.

    I have already requested the procedures used in pacing via registered mail.
    If it is not a proper discovery request (proper in form and process), no one has to honor your requests.

    I have also received the second speeding ticket just today.
    Time to slow down.

    I was doing allegedly 85 on a 65 zone (in LA). Also, I think he wrote down the wrong code (rookie) – 22349(a)VC instead of the 22356(B)VC one (as on my other ticket).
    What's wrong with this:

    22349. (a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive
    a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.


    It looks relevant to me.

    Also, you guys are wrong about traffic school after being found guilty. You ALWAYS have the right to it.
    Correction, the court has the OPTION to provide it in most cases - you do NOT have a "right" to it. However, it is common practice throughout the state that once you take the stand to fight your ticket, the option will be taken off the table if you are found guilty. Most traffic courts even remind the gallery of this before trial.

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,312

    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    I found the 3 MPH over the limit source - it's an urban legend.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/california.asp

    - Carl
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Passed Police Car at 73MPH on 70MPH Zone in California

    Carl,

    Thank you SO much for writing to me. I know that it is a privilege to get an advice here and not a right. I'm sorry if I sounded snobbish, but I am just very stressed. I am reading books on how to beat the ticket and prepare for a trial. I can only hope that they'll change the county, but maybe they won't. I wrote that being a student and working at two jobs it would be financial hardship for me to go to Victorville and lose my entire day.
    In the request form I asked them to send me the copy of officer's notes on the ticket and ANY other information contained in their system (whether voice recorded or written) concerning my ticket number.

    I repeat, I really did NOT go over 73 and the limit was 70. I saw the police long before I passed him but chose to not slow down because had no intention on slamming on my breaks when there are cars behind me. I thought the policeman would understand, but I was too $**** stupid to underestimate his ego. I deserve the second speeding ticket I got (but I was late and rushing), but if I have to pay for the Vegas ticket, my entire morale and belief in the justice system will collapse. On my way there people were passing me at astonishing speeds in their expensive sportscars. Yet here I am driving a fuel conserving, ultra low emission vehicle and now will have to be skinned for driving about 3mph over the limit in hopes of not creating hazardous conditions. For what I know, my car must not even have an accurate speed reading and plus/minus 3mph or even more could simply be speedometer error. I am so disappointed!

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