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  1. #21
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    Feb 2020
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    Innocent until proven guilty? The trial is the proof. Until then you are still innocent.
    The case is not tried by you giving evidence to the DA. While the DA "discounts" it, if it is relevant your lawyer will certainly bring it up in court.
    Listen to your lawyer.
    Then you should admit that your first three sentences are wrong. In that, a guilty verdict does not mean a person is no longer innocent.

  2. #22
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    Sep 2020
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Attention Readers,

    I have also observed Harold99's distasteful posts on this forum, so I will quote the following from another user:

    "Harold99 posts for no other reason than to take shots at senior members of the forum and lawyers in general. *It would be wise to ignore whatever he writes. While the person posting under the name of Harold99 has been banned from this site at least 3 times but, due to the current lack of moderation, he isn’t being banned. Hopefully, that will change in the future but for now, we have to live with it.

    For now, I suggest you simply ignore his posts but if you do read them please read any responses posted by the more rational members."

  3. #23
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting Zigner
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    Attention Readers,

    I have also observed Harold99's distasteful posts on this forum, so I will quote the following from another user:

    "Harold99 posts for no other reason than to take shots at senior members of the forum and lawyers in general. *It would be wise to ignore whatever he writes. While the person posting under the name of Harold99 has been banned from this site at least 3 times but, due to the current lack of moderation, he isn’t being banned. Hopefully, that will change in the future but for now, we have to live with it.

    For now, I suggest you simply ignore his posts but if you do read them please read any responses posted by the more rational members."
    Thanks for the heads up. I'll try to ignore him too.

  4. #24
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    This is a common, yet inherently flawed phrase because 'proven guilty' does not negate one's innocence. It could just a easily be 'innocent in spite of being proven guilty.'

    It is a legal term meant to imply something without actually saying it. IOW, a crafty use of the oral arts.
    The more appropriate phrase is "Presumption of innocence". This instruction must be given to jurors about the defendant. If not, that in and of itself is not reversible error, but would be negligent on the part of the Court.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting RJR
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    The more appropriate phrase is "Presumption of innocence". This instruction must be given to jurors about the defendant. If not, that in and of itself is not reversible error, but would be negligent on the part of the Court.
    When it comes to wording our laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc, every word carried a lot of weight. Why is it more appropriate to say "presumption of innocence until proven guilty" over "innocent until proven guilty?" What is the distinction between the two phrases?

    Also, why would they use the word "proven" when referring to the outcome of a trial? One might say that using available evidence "proves" something. But not so. Example: If we used our available evidence on cancer, can science and medicine declare that they have 'proven' there is no cure for cancer? No. Their evidence does not prove that at all.

    As said, words are very powerful and concise in our justice system. The use of the word 'proven' should rarely be used relating to a trial. A person is voted guilty, not 'proven' guilty because a trial can rarely prove that a person did a crime. Unless the word 'guilty' means: "A person will pay for the crime regardless of whether it has been proven he committed the crime."

  6. #26
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    Jul 2016
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    Paso Robles, California
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    541

    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    When it comes to wording our laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc, every word carried a lot of weight. Why is it more appropriate to say "presumption of innocence until proven guilty" over "innocent until proven guilty?" What is the distinction between the two phrases?
    There is no difference. They both refer to a principle that requires the government to prove the guilt of a criminal defendant and relieves the defendant of any burden to prove his or her innocence.

    According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the presumption of the innocence of a criminal defendant is best described as an assumption of innocence that is indulged in the absence of contrary evidence (Taylor v. Kentucky, 436 U.S. 478, 98 S. Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468 [1978]). It is not considered evidence of the defendant's innocence, and it does not require that a mandatory inference favorable to the defendant be drawn from any facts in evidence.

    The Estelle court supra at 486 further noted "While use of the particular phrase 'presumption of innocence'—or any other form of words—may not be constitutionally mandated, the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment must be held to safeguard 'against dilution of the principle that guilt is to be established by probative evidence and beyond a reasonable doubt.'" [Emphasis added]

    So you can put these words in any order you want, the principle remains the same.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  7. #27
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    Ohio
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    When it comes to wording our laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc, every word carried a lot of weight.
    Not every word carried a lot of weight, mostly the words/phrases that needed to be interpreted.

    Take the 4th AM, it states no "UNreasonable" searches or seizures. You can't define the UN with exactness, as proven by the volumes of case law on it.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting RJR
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    Not every word carried a lot of weight, mostly the words/phrases that needed to be interpreted.

    Take the 4th AM, it states no "UNreasonable" searches or seizures. You can't define the UN with exactness, as proven by the volumes of case law on it.
    The word "unreasonable" carries a lot of weight. It just happens to be a word that cannot describe every situation. Like: A motorist must operate his vehicle 'safely.' Safe' for one person may not be safe for another. So does that mean 'safe' has no definition. Not hardly.

  9. #29
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    The word "unreasonable" carries a lot of weight. It just happens to be a word that cannot describe every situation. Like: A motorist must operate his vehicle 'safely.' Safe' for one person may not be safe for another. So does that mean 'safe' has no definition. Not hardly.
    Attention Readers,

    Harold99 posts for no other reason than to take shots at senior members of the forum and lawyers in general. *It would be wise to ignore whatever he writes. While the person posting under the name of Harold99 has been banned from this site at least 3 times but, due to the current lack of moderation, he isn’t being banned. Hopefully, that will change in the future but for now, we have to live with it.

    For now, I suggest you simply ignore his posts but if you do read them please read any responses posted by the more rational members.

  10. #30
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    Feb 2020
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    734

    Default Re: What Do You Do if You Are Charged of Passing a School Bus, but Didn't Do It

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    Attention Readers,

    Harold99 posts for no other reason than to take shots at senior members of the forum and lawyers in general. *It would be wise to ignore whatever he writes. While the person posting under the name of Harold99 has been banned from this site at least 3 times but, due to the current lack of moderation, he isn’t being banned. Hopefully, that will change in the future but for now, we have to live with it.

    For now, I suggest you simply ignore his posts but if you do read them please read any responses posted by the more rational members.
    Your attempt to harass and censor isn't working...but carry on little troll.

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