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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/...s/imply-infer/

    Imply and infer are opposites, like a throw and a catch. To imply is to hint at something, but to infer is to make an educated guess. The speaker does the implying, and the listener does the inferring.

    To imply is to suggest something indirectly. If you hand your friend a stack of napkins during dinner, you imply that she needs them. Things can imply, too, like a chimney that implies a fireplace. Check out these examples:

    By their very definition, flea markets imply cheap prices for used and unwanted items, as is still the case in most other places. (New York Times)
    Stern also implied the entire season might be at risk. (Seattle Times)

    It isn't fair to imply that cardiovascular disease is going away. (Nature)

    Infer is on the receiving end of imply, yet infer is often used to mean imply. To infer is to gather, deduce, or figure out.Writers tend to know how to use infer correctly:

    He talks about having led in the private sector but voters have to infer too much about what that means. (Slate)

    They were also better at inferring feelings from images of just the eyes. (Scientific American)

    Yet it must not be inferred that farming women are without mental ability or common sense. (Sidney Lewis Gulick)

    Like baseball? Theodore Bernstein, in his classic The Careful Writer, gives us a way to keep imply and infer straight: "The implier is the pitcher; the inferrer is the catcher."
    Hmmm. I stand corrected. I meant imply.

    See how easy that was.

  2. #32
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    Apr 2019
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    You got that wrong too. A writer can infer something in his writing, and most often does. What he cannot do is force the other person's reaction to it.

    Lawyers are experts at inferring something without actually saying it. Right TM?
    The writer may imply but the reader infers.

  3. #33
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    You are not getting it! It is impossible to determine if someone is high on weed. Period.
    I disagree with that. There is no chemical test for it, but that does not preclude determining it through other evidence. I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that.

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Also, I did not imply such a test exists. I asked for the name of such test since Ron implied such a test exists.
    You still don't get it. Ron implied no such thing.

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Is it too late at night to discuss this...and maybe we should pick this up in the morning? If I told someone to keep their stock Corolla under 200mph, the next question would be "what stock Corolla goes 200mph?"
    Why should that be the next question? If no Corolla can go over 200 mph then it will be easy for the person to follow your direction. Why would he or she need to know then if any Corolla can go over 200 mph? He may want to know that out of curiosity, but it certainly wouldn't be necessary information to follow your direction. Thus, your direction to the person would not imply that any Corolla exists that can go over 200 mph and there would be no need for you to ever prove that there is one out there could that.

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    So don't even infer that the outcome of a trial determines truth.
    I have never said on these boards that a trial outcome determines truth nor will you ever see me say that. A trial determines guilt in a criminal case and the responsibilities of the parties in a civil case, nothing more. While the rules for trials are designed to try to reveal truth, like any other process designed by humans the trial process is an imperfect one.

  4. #34
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    I don't know how much more plainly I can put it for Harold. I said that no test was required. That doesn't indicate the existence of a test or not. If I tell you that I don't need a car to go next door, it doesn't indicate that I do or do not have a car.

  5. #35
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    Sep 2020
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    My apologies to all for the thread. I had no idea it would end up with members arguing.

    I do appreciate all the info I got from the thread, even though it flies in the face of what I was hoping for.

    I hope everyone is safe and healthy as we head into fall.

  6. #36
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting Uneducated
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    My apologies to all for the thread. I had no idea it would end up with members arguing.

    I do appreciate all the info I got from the thread, even though it flies in the face of what I was hoping for.

    I hope everyone is safe and healthy as we head into fall.
    Don't worry about it. Harrold argues about everything.

    One point of good news for you. While your employer could fire you for no reason at all, there is very little chance they are going to find out about your marijuana use because of your insurance claim.

    Just don't go to work under the influence It is dangerous and will get you fired.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    If I tell you that I don't need a car to go next door, it doesn't indicate that I do or do not have a car.
    Maybe if I explain this enough times you guys will get it.

    Your example is flawed. Cars are already in existence, so there are no doubts of there being cars available to drive next door. What if you said you are not using your Star Trek teleporter to go next door. The next response, like mine was, would be "there is no such thing as a 'teleporter.' Also, by you saying that you are not using your teleporter, implies that there is such a device. Doesn't it? Otherwise, why would you say it?

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    I disagree with that. There is no chemical test for it, but that does not preclude determining it through other evidence. I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree on that.
    That sounds fancy, but it is false. (Sometimes I think your excellent writing skills causes you to believe yourself...and I am serious...just like a UFC fighter would feel to be on the right side just because he can win a physical conflict.)

    You can muddy and misdirect. There is no other way to "determine through other evidence." There is only scientific testing...which does not exist.

    Now if you want to take a reach, one can be seen smoking pot and a determination can be made like that. But that is off the subject of testing to determine, like Ron said.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    There is no other way to "determine through other evidence." There is only scientific testing
    Wrong you are Harold. There is evidence to prove a lot of things other than scientific evidence. If a guy smells strongly of alcohol, is slurring his words, and stumbling around, those are all things that are evidence that the guy is drunk and I would say it is reasonable to conclude the guy is drunk absent any evidence to the contrary without the need for a breath or blood test to show his BAC level. I don't need to know his exact BAC level to conclude he's drunk given the evidence that I have. In short, I don't need a scientific test for that. But apparently YOU would. And that's the difference between us here, the degree of proof you demand versus what I (and probably most others) would demand in this circumstance.

    The difference in our views can be highlighted this way. We both see something that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. For most purposes I'm willing to conclude from that evidence that I'm looking at a duck, again absent evidence to the contrary. You, on the other hand, would apparently say "Not so fast, that might be a cat cleverly disguised as a duck. So I want an expert on ducks to run a battery of tests on this thing and hand me a scientific report that states this is a duck before I will believe it is a duck." In short, you seemingly would never be satisfied without absolute, 100% proof of anything backed by scientific results. But in the vast majority of things we do in life we can do quite well relying on evidence that, while perhaps isn't 100% scientifically proven, reasonably supports the conclusion we have reached. I can look at that creature that looks like a duck in the park and feel reasonably sure that it is, in fact, a duck. You evidently would insist on that scientific report before you were willing to say it's a duck.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Wrong you are Harold. There is evidence to prove a lot of things other than scientific evidence. If a guy smells strongly of alcohol, is slurring his words, and stumbling around, those are all things that are evidence that the guy is drunk and I would say it is reasonable to conclude the guy is drunk — absent any evidence to the contrary — without the need for a breath or blood test to show his BAC level. I don't need to know his exact BAC level to conclude he's drunk given the evidence that I have. In short, I don't need a scientific test for that. But apparently YOU would. And that's the difference between us here, the degree of proof you demand versus what I (and probably most others) would demand in this circumstance.

    The difference in our views can be highlighted this way. We both see something that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck. For most purposes I'm willing to conclude from that evidence that I'm looking at a duck, again absent evidence to the contrary. You, on the other hand, would apparently say "Not so fast, that might be a cat cleverly disguised as a duck. So I want an expert on ducks to run a battery of tests on this thing and hand me a scientific report that states this is a duck before I will believe it is a duck." In short, you seemingly would never be satisfied without absolute, 100% proof of anything backed by scientific results. But in the vast majority of things we do in life we can do quite well relying on evidence that, while perhaps isn't 100% scientifically proven, reasonably supports the conclusion we have reached. I can look at that creature that looks like a duck in the park and feel reasonably sure that it is, in fact, a duck. You evidently would insist on that report before you were willing to say it's a duck.
    If a woman weighs as much as a duck she must be......A WITCH!!!

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Can I Be Fired for Drug Use Without Failing a Drug Test

    With that weak evidence you guys would be shredded by a real, skilled trial attorney. Especially in a courtroom where you could be forced to eat your words. I suspect none of you have ever witnessed a real trial attorney at work.

    Luckily, that cannot happen here. I can keep making my point and you can keep saying I do not have one.

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