Landlords Don’t Want to Prove Ownership, they failed to transfer, so no public record

[Alegraelaine1]

My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: california
I have reason to believe my landlords (who claim they are owners) are not. They claim they inherited property from elder neighbor. I wanted to verify ownership and found they had not properly transferred property into their name via affidavit of death. Now they don’t want to show me proof- deed etc. however I feel I need proof, do I have a right to proof as a renter? Or only right to access public record which in this case doesn’t help. Thanks

[adjusterjack]

One doesn't have to be an owner to be a landlord. So why is that important to you?

How about you give us the who's who and the what's what?

[Alegraelaine1]

I added content to message above. There have been enough shady actions to give me concern that they may not be rightful owners. I’ve nicely demanded some doc. Proof and gently alluded to their missed step at the county, I don’t want to anger them in case I’m wrong, but I’d like proof and to know if it’s my right to demand proof.

Also, they have claimed ownership for 5 years, and never transferred into their name. It was supposed to have been done within 1st 2 months. It matters to me bc I do not want to be unwittingly involved in trust-fraud/elder abuse possibility. It bothers me.

[adjusterjack]

Please keep all of your discussion to the other thread where there is more information.

This one is reported as duplicate and will be deleted.

[pg1067]

I have reason to believe my landlords (who claim they are owners) are not. They claim they inherited property from elder neighbor. I wanted to verify ownership and found they had not properly transferred property into their name via affidavit of death.

An affidavit of death does not effect a transfer of property. If two or more persons own real property as joint tenants with the right of survivorship or a married couple owns real property as community property, then the death of one joint owner automatically effects a transfer of that person's interest to the surviving owner(s). The survivor(s) may and should record an affidavit of death of joint tenant or affidavit of surviving spouse, along with a death certificate, so that the transfer is a matter of public record, but recording the affidavit does not effect the transfer; nor is it a necessary condition of the transfer.

With that in mind, please provide more information about the ownership of this property. Did the neighbor and your landlords own the property as joint tenants? If so, then the deceased neighbor's interest passed to your landlords by operation of law (and "inherit" isn't really the correct term). If they did not own the property as joint tenants, then you're going to need to clarify the facts.

Now they don’t want to show me proof- deed etc.

Why should they?

I feel I need proof

Why?

do I have a right to proof as a renter?

No.

Or only right to access public record which in this case doesn’t help.

If the public records lead you to believe that your landlords don't own the property and that is of concern to you, you are free to move out once your lease term ends (or after giving 30 days' notice if you're a month-to-month tenant).

Please keep all of your discussion to the other thread where there is more information.

This one is reported as duplicate and might be deleted if this site had any semblance of moderation.

ftfy

[Alegraelaine1]

I don’t want to move out, I also don’t want to be paying rent to folks posing as owners, or to find myself losing my housing bc something catches up w them. If it’s not my right to be able to verify their claimed ownership as per our lease, then might I write the check to the owner of record- the living trust? That way they can cash it if they are the legit trustees as they say? Or could I put in escrow until they provide proof?

[llworking]

I don’t want to move out, I also don’t want to be paying rent to folks posing as owners, or to find myself losing my housing bc something catches up w them. If it’s not my right to be able to verify their claimed ownership as per our lease, then might I write the check to the owner of record- the living trust? That way they can cash it if they are the legit trustees as they say? Or could I put in escrow until they provide proof?

I am going to put this in the bluntest terms possible, since you do not seem to understand what we are telling you. You have a lease, which is an enforceable contract between you and your current landlord. You do not have a lease between you and the living trust. You have to honor the lease as long as you are living there. You cannot just arbitrarily start paying an entity that is not a party to the lease.

Now, since you mentioned that the house is in a trust, that changes things significantly. If it was in a living trust, that trust became irrevocable when the grantor died. All trusts have beneficiaries. It is quite possible that your current landlords are the beneficiaries of the trust. If that is so, then it would not be appropriate for them to put the house in their names unless the trustee of the trust distributes the house to them, which is not necessarily something that the trust would allow.

It is true that the lease really should be between you and the trust, and your payments therefore going to the trust, however if they are the only beneficiaries to the trust, there is nothing nefarious about the lease being between you and them and you paying them.


If they are not beneficiaries of the trust or are not the only beneficiaries of the trust then that is when something nefarious might be going on. Nevertheless, you have a signed contract to pay them (the lease) and you must do so until something else happens or you give notice and move out.

[pg1067]

I don’t want to move out, I also don’t want to be paying rent to folks posing as owners, or to find myself losing my housing bc something catches up w them. If it’s not my right to be able to verify their claimed ownership as per our lease, then might I write the check to the owner of record- the living trust? That way they can cash it if they are the legit trustees as they say? Or could I put in escrow until they provide proof?

I imagine if you do those things it will result in an eviction proceeding against you. If this is a big concern to you, feel free to commission a local title company to provide you with a title report.

You have a lease, which is an enforceable contract between you and your current landlord. You do not have a lease between you and the living trust.

Where are you getting this? The word "lease" doesn't appear in anything written by the OP except for this: "If it’s not my right to be able to verify their claimed ownership as per our lease. . . ." How do you know who the other party(ies) to the OP's lease are?

[llworking]

I imagine if you do those things it will result in an eviction proceeding against you. If this is a big concern to you, feel free to commission a local title company to provide you with a title report.



Where are you getting this? The word "lease" doesn't appear in anything written by the OP except for this: "If it’s not my right to be able to verify their claimed ownership as per our lease. . . ." How do you know who the other party(ies) to the OP's lease are?

The OP has another thread on the same subject.

[pg1067]

The OP has another thread on the same subject.

Nothing in that other thread forecloses the possibility that the other party to the lease is a trust. And, as I mentioned in that other thread, the mere existence of a lease doesn't necessarily make the lease enforceable.