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  1. #41
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    Feb 2020
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    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting JenniN
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    When did the OP mention a crack house? Again, you can come up with hypotheticals all day. Still doesn’t change the OP’s situation which doesn’t apply to any of the scenarios you are throwing out there.
    You know my question to you but you can pick on the wording and not answer it if you wish.

  2. #42
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    16,378

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    You know my question to you but can pick on the wording and not answer it if you wish.
    You refuse to answer what law you are talking about when you talk about "Rights of Retention"...and she has asked you multiple times. I have even googled it and cannot imagine what you are referring to when it comes to landlord/tenant law in the state in question. So Harold, since you are making such a big deal about it, explain it.

  3. #43
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    Jun 2014
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    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Harold, post a link to the law.

  4. #44
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    Feb 2020
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    593

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting Mercy&Grace
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    Harold, post a link to the law.
    The law I posted in post #11 clearly states that if the tenant is in "apprehension of danger" that the rental agreement can be broken. The right of retention may not be enough to terminate the lease without an obligation but this law is clearly applicable. And to those that say a police report had not been generated, well, that is easily remedied.

    A sleazy landlord that does not want to disclose to his unsuspecting new tenant that a dangerous, public nuisance lives next-door to their new home may not have to disclose it. He can claim ignorance of the neighbor and the law and hope for a naive, wimpy person like the OP to come along...and rip him for $1,600 and act like he's doing him a favor.

    Since most here like to see the OP's get screwed, I doubt this thread will get any traction or acknowledgment. Actually, I expect the opposite.

    In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, I was an ACLU lawyer in a past life. I hate to see large institutions get over on the naive, which explains some of my attitude here.

  5. #45
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    Aug 2018
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    17

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    The law I posted in post #11 clearly states that if the tenant is in "apprehension of danger" that the rental agreement can be broken. The right of retention may not be enough to terminate the lease without an obligation but this law is clearly applicable. And to those that say a police report had not been generated, well, that is easily remedied.

    A sleazy landlord that does not want to disclose to his unsuspecting new tenant that a dangerous, public nuisance lives next-door to their new home may not have to disclose it. He can claim ignorance of the neighbor and the law and hope for a naive, wimpy person like the OP to come along...and rip him for $1,600 and act like he's doing him a favor.

    Since most here like to see the OP's get screwed, I doubt this thread will get any traction or acknowledgment. Actually, I expect the opposite.

    In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, I was an ACLU lawyer in a past life. I hate to see large institutions get over on the naive, which explains some of my attitude here.

    Then you also know this...

    To prove that you have a “reasonable fear,” you must provide ONE OR MORE of the following documents to your landlord:

    a valid personal protection order from Michigan;

    a protection order from another state or territory that was issued for the purpose of preventing an abuser’s violent or threatening acts, harassment, or contact, or that orders the abuser to stay away from you;
    an order removing the abuser from your home as part of an abuse and neglect case (under M.C.L. § 712A.13a);

    a valid probation order, conditional release order, or parole order that subjects the abuser to conditions that are reasonably necessary to protect you or your child (for example, a condition that the abuser cannot contact you or your child); (Note: Any of the above-mentioned orders that you submit must still be in effect on the date you submit them); or

    a written police report that has resulted in criminal charges being filed by the prosecutor within the past 14 days (before you submit it to your landlord). If the criminal charges were filed more than 14 days before you submit your statement/documents to your landlord, you must also demonstrate a “verifiable threat” of present danger from domestic violence, sexual assault, or stalking. You can submit a form signed by a qualified third party (such as a domestic violence advocate who has provided services to you) to demonstrate this “verifiable threat.”3 You can see the language that this form must include on our Statutes page under M.C.L. § 554.601b(3)(e).
    1 M.C.L. § 554.601b(1)
    2 M.C.L. § 554.601b(1),(2)
    3 M.C.L. § 554.601b(3)


    I clearly stated this in my response. OP made it clear she did not want to call the police and made no mention of a PPO.

    SOOOOO, to answer your question AGAIN (because I addressed this above), sure she could have requested to be released from her lease BUT there are steps she needed to take as well and she declined to take those steps. You say its easily remedied and I agree, IF the tenant chooses to exercise the remedy and she already said she did not want to do so.

    So why does the landlord get blamed for that? She made deal to pay a certain amount to avoid all of that and it was worth it to her. She's moved on but you can't.

  6. #46
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    Feb 2020
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    593

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting JenniN
    View Post
    Then you also know this...

    To prove that you have a “reasonable fear,” you must provide ONE OR MORE of the following documents to your landlord:

    a valid personal protection order from Michigan;

    a protection order from another state or territory that was issued for the purpose of preventing an abuser’s violent or threatening acts, harassment, or contact, or that orders the abuser to stay away from you;
    an order removing the abuser from your home as part of an abuse and neglect case (under M.C.L. § 712A.13a);

    a valid probation order, conditional release order, or parole order that subjects the abuser to conditions that are reasonably necessary to protect you or your child (for example, a condition that the abuser cannot contact you or your child); (Note: Any of the above-mentioned orders that you submit must still be in effect on the date you submit them); or

    a written police report that has resulted in criminal charges being filed by the prosecutor within the past 14 days (before you submit it to your landlord). If the criminal charges were filed more than 14 days before you submit your statement/documents to your landlord, you must also demonstrate a “verifiable threat” of present danger from domestic violence, sexual assault, or stalking. You can submit a form signed by a qualified third party (such as a domestic violence advocate who has provided services to you) to demonstrate this “verifiable threat.”3 You can see the language that this form must include on our Statutes page under M.C.L. § 554.601b(3)(e).
    1 M.C.L. § 554.601b(1)
    2 M.C.L. § 554.601b(1),(2)
    3 M.C.L. § 554.601b(3)


    I clearly stated this in my response. OP made it clear she did not want to call the police and made no mention of a PPO.

    SOOOOO, to answer your question AGAIN (because I addressed this above), sure she could have requested to be released from her lease BUT there are steps she needed to take as well and she declined to take those steps. You say its easily remedied and I agree, IF the tenant chooses to exercise the remedy and she already said she did not want to do so.

    So why does the landlord get blamed for that? She made deal to pay a certain amount to avoid all of that and it was worth it to her. She's moved on but you can't.
    Now you are changing the metric. You asked for the law and I supplied it. Who cares if the this lazy, fearful, ignorant OP doesn't want to use the laws available to her? Heck, if someone was stupid enough to hand me $1,600, I might take it too.

    But I know one thing if I was the property owner, I'd be going to war with that neighbor. When other owners would just be looking for a more tolerant renter.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    7,940

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Anyone else find it ironic that Chuckles complains about members mistreating people who come here with legal questions then turns around and calls the OP in this thread naive, wimpy, lazy, fearful, ignorant and stupid? Simply because they chose the easy, albeit pricey, way out instead of being a manly man like Chuckles.
    I am the Mouse Man

  8. #48
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    Feb 2020
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    593

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    Anyone else find it ironic that Chuckles complains about members mistreating people who come here with legal questions then turns around and calls the OP in this thread naive, wimpy, lazy, fearful, ignorant and stupid? Simply because they chose the easy, albeit pricey, way out instead of being a manly man like Chuckles.
    When a law is written specifically for the OP, it is shown to her, and she doesn't use the law as a defense, yes, I call that her choice but stupid.

  9. #49
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    Oct 2014
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    8,120

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    In case anyone hasn't figured it out yet, I was an ACLU lawyer in a past life. I hate to see large institutions get over on the naive, which explains some of my attitude here.
    You despise lawyers, Harold. So now you are saying in your past life you were one of those very people you find to be so morally bankrupt and unethical? You might have done better to claim to be an ACLU activist in a past life rather than a lawyer to make your point and avoid sullying yourself with what you consider to be the stain of being a lawyer.

  10. #50
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    Feb 2020
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    593

    Default Re: Being Harassed, Need to Break Lease

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    You despise lawyers, Harold. So now you are saying in your past life you were one of those very people you find to be so morally bankrupt and unethical? You might have done better to claim to be an ACLU activist in a past life rather than a lawyer to make your point and avoid sullying yourself with what you consider to be the stain of being a lawyer.
    TM,
    What does a pacifist do when they continually get beaten up? They learn how to fight.

    What did the peace filled Shaolin Monks do when they were continually invaded? They learned and perfected deadly martial arts.

    What does someone do who is facing an unethical, skilled lawyer wanting to do them harm? They hire another unethical, skilled lawyer to defend them.

    I have learned a great deal with my many times in the courtroom and there are a few ways to deal with lawyers. First, you avoid them at all costs much like I avoid muggers. But when you see them doing their craft, which is very similar to what politicians do, you learn to see through the misleading, exaggerating, parsing and lying that makes them so effective and use it back on them. IOW, you become the enemy.

    I think I could stand my ground with many lawyers. Where I’d lose miserably is if they got me into their octagon (the courtroom). So, though I can see through a lot of their trickery and match those antics, I still despise them much the same way a Shaolin Monk despises violent attackers. Does that make sense?

    FWIW, You are a good debater. Better than my last lawyer but not as effective as the opposing, sleazebag defense lawyer. You share an ethical trait similar to my lawyer. For that you'd lose if you had represented me.

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