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  1. #11

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    And another case of you not providing any commentary other than to rail against other users.

    I do questions that math and the variable supplied by the OP. What that means is that the roof of this building will support my 3/4 ton diesel pickup (scales out empty at 3.5 tons), fully loaded, if I park it on the roof. I just don't buy it.
    I am not a structural engineer but neither are you. Weight spread out over a span of roofing is different than weight distributed over 4 tires which I am guessing would be a square foot or two. If you took your truck apart and spread the weight evenly across your roof then we would be comparing apples to apples. Your statement about parking your diesel on the roof is off-topic. I am guessing the 'experts' here have no experience with snow load nor Michigan law nor how snow load relates to Michigan law, which is the help I need. If you don't like my math then find credible structural engineering to refute it.

    Quote Quoting latigo
    View Post
    Speaking of avalanches how about this riveting, tear-jerking cascade? Is there a violinist handy?
    I invite you to stand under the eave of my much larger metal building next winter on the first sunny day after we get at least 8 inches of heavy wet snow. Please wait for the snow to slide off the roof on top of you and see how you would describe what happens to you. I will supply the violin music for you. You know nothing about snow and this issue. Why did you make your comment? What was your purpose?

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    I can believe that heavy, wet snow could weigh 21 lbs per square foot. However, lets say that it only weighs 5 lbs per square foot. That still works out to 2800 lbs or 2.8 tons and that could still do serious damage if it slides down all at once. That is about a shovel full of snow and that easily can be 5 lbs or more wet and heavy.

    If not wet and heavy snow then its not going to even weigh 1 lb.
    Are you making up your own engineering math or do you have a source to base you 1 lb snow weight from? FEMA gives a weight of 3 lbs per 6 inches of light snow per square foot. Where are you getting your less than one pound statistic from?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,392

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting Jean5720
    View Post
    I am not a structural engineer but neither are you. Weight spread out over a span of roofing is different than weight distributed over 4 tires which I am guessing would be a square foot or two. If you took your truck apart and spread the weight evenly across your roof then we would be comparing apples to apples. Your statement about parking your diesel on the roof is off-topic. I am guessing the 'experts' here have no experience with snow load nor Michigan law nor how snow load relates to Michigan law, which is the help I need. If you don't like my math then find credible structural engineering to refute it.



    I invite you to stand under the eave of my much larger metal building next winter on the first sunny day after we get at least 8 inches of heavy wet snow. Please wait for the snow to slide off the roof on top of you and see how you would describe what happens to you. I will supply the violin music for you. You know nothing about snow and this issue. Why did you make your comment? What was your purpose?


    Are you making up your own engineering math or do you have a source to base you 1 lb snow weight from? FEMA gives a weight of 3 lbs per 6 inches of light snow per square foot. Where are you getting your less than one pound statistic from?
    From what it feels like to shovel light snow.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    And another case of you not providing any commentary other than to rail against other users.
    Well, since many here bash on the OP with no solution, I thought they'd find it acceptable for me to bash on them.

    I do questions that math and the variable supplied by the OP. What that means is that the roof of this building will support my 3/4 ton diesel pickup (scales out empty at 3.5 tons), fully loaded, if I park it on the roof. I just don't buy it.
    The math is easily understood. A roof can support a ton with ease. Just look at when a roof is being built, especially a tile roof. A supply truck will load a roof with a conveyer belt and the crew will place the new tile material in a very dispersed way, not placing too much weight on any one roof rafter. Tile or asphalt shingles will easily be several tons. Also, in a snowy environment, a roof is designed to handle the weight of say three feet of snow on it.

    As for damage being required before a complaint can be made, not so. There are strict codes requiring all water drainage to be carried out to the street. Water drainage cannot run across a neighbor's property, whether its your side or back neighbor. That is code in at least CA. The same building and safety code should be required of shedding snow from a roof. Snow can blow onto the neighbor's property but cannot be naturally dumped from a roof onto his property. The high risk of safety and damage just compounds the complaint.

    Snow that slides off a roof can crush the hood or roof of a car. Happens all the time. It slides off a roof with such force it could kill a person which is why you see commercial signs warning people not to stand too close to a snow covered roof. Also, 2,800 pounds is not 2.8 tons. It is 1.4 tons. And, snow could easily knock over a fence if it hit it with the right angle and force...at least the pickets.

    True, the OP can wait for damage and then file a claim against the neighbor's homeowner's policy. A few times of doing that and the neighbor will find his own way of fixing the problem. Or, he can file a complaint against the building permit that allowed it in the first place. Just because a building permit was issued doesn't mean the city doesn't have to fix their mistakes.

    There Mark, is that sufficient commentary?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,177

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Also, 2,800 pounds is not 2.8 tons. It is 2.4 tons.
    No, it's not 2.4 tons.

    It's 1.4 tons.

    A ton is 2000 lbs.


  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
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    633

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
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    No, it's not 2.4 tons.

    It's 1.4 tons.

    A ton is 2000 lbs.

    Very true, but funny you so quickly corrected me but not your buddy llworking...and that you have zero concurrence with the rest of the post.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,665

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Introducing velocity to the equation, as it pertains to the force of snow sliding off of a roof, changes things immensely but mass is still mass and this is a forum for discussing physics.

    Your neighbor was granted a permit and, at this point, you can't do a lot about it until something happens...or you can hire an attorney to help remedy the situation. I don't believe that you'd be successful in recovering snow removal costs though you may be able to recover costs from damage due to snow falling off the roof but that would require you to allow something to be subject to that damage.

    Alas, winter is coming.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  7. #17

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    From what it feels like to shovel light snow.
    How scientific. I bet you were an A+ student in physics. BTW hubby is an engineer and I have a Masters in Chemistry plus other science degrees. I am not an engineer, but I can calculate the weight of snow.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,665

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting Jean5720
    View Post
    How scientific. I bet you were an A+ student in physics. BTW hubby is an engineer and I have a Masters in Chemistry plus other science degrees. I am not an engineer, but I can calculate the weight of snow.
    Then perhaps you should solve your own problems rather than coming here and insulting those whom you ask for help. You're clearly smart enough, right?
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,392

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    No, it's not 2.4 tons.

    It's 1.4 tons.

    A ton is 2000 lbs.

    Boy, I really got that wrong. I really thought that there were 1000 pounds in a ton.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    373

    Default Re: Building Permit a Neighbor Put Up a Steel Garage Snow Dumps on My Property

    Does your county have a minimum setback from the property line for structures such as sheds? Even though my county doesn't have zoning there are certain regulations we have to follow, such as a ten foot setback from the property lie for structures like sheds and single family homes.

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