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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    624

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    It's likely that the neighbor would have had to get a permit to install the AC compressor (mechanical, electric, maybe building).
    Nobody has to get a permit to do anything around their house. They get one if they choose to or if they get caught. But I would estimate that 90% of jobs that the city would like you to get a permit for, do not. I just GC'd and was a sub on two $200K remodels that did not pull permits.

    You can go to the building department and ask to see the records. They are public records. See if a survey was included as part of the application and where the AC was located. You never know what you may find. It may have been approved for his back yard and installed it in the side yard.


    Then how would he pass the final inspection?

  2. #12

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    I would check with your local records office to see if he had surveys done in the past that might help you figure things out--or even earlier versions of your property survey. Maybe the 2009 survey didn't worry about that detail as it wasn't relative to the reason the survey was made, but maybe a previous survey has additional details.

    If you can't find official documents that tell you when it was installed, or even if you just want to have some pictures...:

    Depending on how large the AC unit is and how visible, you might be able to use historic images from Google Maps satellite views and/or street views to see approximately when it was installed.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Will co. IL
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting SubjacentSupport
    View Post
    I would check with your local records office to see if he had surveys done in the past that might help you figure things out--or even earlier versions of your property survey. Maybe the 2009 survey didn't worry about that detail as it wasn't relative to the reason the survey was made, but maybe a previous survey has additional details.

    If you can't find official documents that tell you when it was installed, or even if you just want to have some pictures...:

    Depending on how large the AC unit is and how visible, you might be able to use historic images from Google Maps satellite views and/or street views to see approximately when it was installed.
    i am sure my survey is the only one done of my neighbors in, gosh, maybe ever. the guy knows what the property line is, i bet he even has a copy of my survey, he was friends with the PO's who built my garage. this guy just wants to win one on me. so far he is 0 for2, i want it 0 for 3. anyway, seems property lines, in the past, were just a "suggestion", then i came along. i want to improve my property, as much as i can, for resale value, whenever i end up selling, which may come aaround before i think it should.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,585

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    This would be the perfect time to write a letter to the neighbor, but do not ever write and send it yourself.

    If you do not already have an attorney, check around for one and have them write and send a letter to the neighbor. Be sure that your survey is not some "mortgage identification" POC but an actual survey with pins called for and in the ground.

    Discuss your goals with the attorney. Attorneys are good letter writers.... better than you and me. Cheapest way likely, to begin and end the process.

    Good luck!
    Resistance is not futile; it is voltage divided by current.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,005

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Nobody has to get a permit to do anything around their house. They get one if they choose to or if they get caught. But I would estimate that 90% of jobs that the city would like you to get a permit for, do not. I just GC'd and was a sub on two $200K remodels that did not pull permits.
    Then you broke the law in not obtaining permits and that may well ball back on you someday. I would think a $200K project would have needed build, plumbing, electrical, maybe mechanical permits. Either the contractor or the homeowner takes out the permits. So either you or the homeowner will be on the hook when the time comes. If there is a structural problem or an electrical or a pipe leaks or anything that might require an insurance company claim, the first thing insurance companies want to see are the permits on new work and if a CO was issued for the work.

    No permits no rider then no coverage on insurance. And you get sued up the wazoo. Also, when a homeowner goes to sell the home the many disclosure forms requires the homeowner to disclose all non-permitted improvements.

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Then how would he pass the final inspection?
    They don't because no final inspection was ever called for. Happens all the time. All the preliminary inspections are done but not the final.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    624

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Then you broke the law in not obtaining permits and that may well ball back on you someday. I would think a $200K project would have needed build, plumbing, electrical, maybe mechanical permits. Either the contractor or the homeowner takes out the permits. So either you or the homeowner will be on the hook when the time comes. If there is a structural problem or an electrical or a pipe leaks or anything that might require an insurance company claim, the first thing insurance companies want to see are the permits on new work and if a CO was issued for the work.
    I have worked and/or seen dozens of residential water leaks where homeowners file claims on their homeowners policies. Never have I seen an insurance company ask or search city records for a building permit. However, I will inquire whether my liability insurance will pay if my ladder falls on a Porsche while I am working without a city permit?

    I know just the GC to ask. He is half lawyer, half GC and a very successful businessman who sold more Milgard windows in CA in 2018 than any other distributor. Let's see what he says on it.

    No permits no rider then no coverage on insurance. And you get sued up the wazoo. Also, when a homeowner goes to sell the home the many disclosure forms requires the homeowner to disclose all non-permitted improvements.
    So the selling homeowner will disclose that contractors have worked on their home over the years without permits. Big deal, nearly every home has done that! At that point the new buyer can have the work checked out and decide to buy it anyway. Regular homeowners and flippers do it all the time and have nearly no consequences at all. The only problem comes when new square footage or bedrooms are added and the city will not add it to the physical description of the property. I have never seen an insurance company refuse to insure a newly or previously remodeled home where no permits were pulled. Or, try to search out who was the last plumber to sweat that pipe? Heck, the home I just installed windows in had an HO insurance company walk his job during construction and they never asked for the building permits.

    They don't because no final inspection was ever called for. Happens all the time. All the preliminary inspections are done but not the final.
    Sure, anything is possible, but why would someone pay the money and pull a permit in the first place if they are not going to get the final? The only time I have not seen finals is when either the homeowner could not finish a job or if the homeowner told the city to 'F' off mid way through a job due to being jerked around.

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    Then you broke the law in not obtaining permits and that may well ball back on you someday. I would think a $200K project would have needed build, plumbing, electrical, maybe mechanical permits. Either the contractor or the homeowner takes out the permits. So either you or the homeowner will be on the hook when the time comes. If there is a structural problem or an electrical or a pipe leaks or anything that might require an insurance company claim, the first thing insurance companies want to see are the permits on new work and if a CO was issued for the work.

    No permits no rider then no coverage on insurance. And you get sued up the wazoo. Also, when a homeowner goes to sell the home the many disclosure forms requires the homeowner to disclose all non-permitted improvements.

    They don't because no final inspection was ever called for. Happens all the time. All the preliminary inspections are done but not the final.
    This is all verified to be false information.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,005

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    This is all verified to be false information.
    If it was verified false by you chances are my post is accurate.

    I don't know what state/s you work in but they require you to be licensed as a contractor and you fail to pull permits (or the homeowner fails to get them) and the state find out, you can kiss your license goodbye. And due check with your liability carrier on preforming work without permits and let me know what they say.

    I know this will fall of deaf ears but here is an anecdotal story. My neighbor installed an above ground pool about 12 years ago. She needed a building permit because of the fence access to the ladder and she needed an electrical permit because of the installation of a 240v underground line from the house to the heat pump and the filter. No big deal.

    Last year the pool was damaged during the winter and needed to be replaced which she did this spring. The municipality said she had to take out new building and electrical permits to replace the pool. So she got the permits and an installation company erected the new pool. She called for the inspections.

    The first to come was the building inspector. He failed the installation because the current code says that you can't have a space in the fence greater than 1/2 inch within 18" of the gate latch. Then the electrical inspector came and he failed the installation because the pool was only bonded to ground in one place. By the current electrical code, you need to bond the pool in six locations around the pool and you have to bond the WATER in the pool between the skimmer and the pump. Both these violation were not violations 12 years ago. Whoever heard of bonding water?

    The fence was an easy fix. We just made the fence board and batten within 18" of the latch and it passed inspection. The bonding of the pool to ground was a bit more complicated. First we had to find the proper fittings to bond water and integrate it into the line between the skimmer and the pump. Then we had to dig a trench 4" deep 16" away from the pool and lay a #8 bare coppery wire around the entire pool. Then we had to attach ground lugs to 6 point around the pool and attach them the ground loop with split nuts. The water bond was also connected to the loop and the loop was connected to pump ground. It passed inspection.

    The point of the story is that if she never got the permits the pool would not be up to code and if there were an incident where a child drowned because they got through the fence or someone was electrocuted during a storm, would she be covered by her homeowner's policy? The answer is no. They could deny coverage because it was not installed according to law and regulation.

    So work at your own peril Harold99.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    4,237

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Nobody has to get a permit to do anything around their house. They get one if they choose to or if they get caught. But I would estimate that 90% of jobs that the city would like you to get a permit for, do not. I just GC'd and was a sub on two $200K remodels that did not pull permits.


    [/B]
    Harold99, you are in California right?

    https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Fi...inary%20action.

    Building permits are required by law as a public safety measure. Permits ensure that construction is performed in compliance with state and local codes, including safety standards. On June 11, 2009, the Contractors State License Board (CSLB) voted unanimously to place a high priority on enforcing building permit requirements, and an industry bulletin was subsequently issued on November 30, 2009, to alert licensees that CSLB would be accelerating building permit enforcement efforts, beginning January 2010.

    Failure to obtain a building permit is a violation of Contractors License Law. Further, construction performed without a permit can expose a homeowner to additional liability and costs. When a contractor performs improvement work without a local building permit, it is a violation of Business and Professions (B&P) Code sections 7110 and 7090. Contractors who violate the law are subject to disciplinary action by CSLB, including civil penalty assessments of up to $5,000 per violation, an order of correction that requires payment of permit fees and any assessed penalties imposed by the local building department, and suspension or revocation of the license.

    If you suspect a violation has occurred, please fill out a Building Permit Violation Referral form. CSLB will contact the contractor regarding the permit allegation and take the appropriate disciplinary action.
    So if you don't know the law in the profession you claim you are an expert in why should anyone listen to you about ANY law?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    624

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    If it was verified false by you chances are my post is accurate.

    I don't know what state/s you work in but they require you to be licensed as a contractor and you fail to pull permits (or the homeowner fails to get them) and the state find out, you can kiss your license goodbye. And due check with your liability carrier on preforming work without permits and let me know what they say.

    I know this will fall of deaf ears but here is an anecdotal story. My neighbor installed an above ground pool about 12 years ago. She needed a building permit because of the fence access to the ladder and she needed an electrical permit because of the installation of a 240v underground line from the house to the heat pump and the filter. No big deal.

    Last year the pool was damaged during the winter and needed to be replaced which she did this spring. The municipality said she had to take out new building and electrical permits to replace the pool. So she got the permits and an installation company erected the new pool. She called for the inspections.

    The first to come was the building inspector. He failed the installation because the current code says that you can't have a space in the fence greater than 1/2 inch within 18" of the gate latch. Then the electrical inspector came and he failed the installation because the pool was only bonded to ground in one place. By the current electrical code, you need to bond the pool in six locations around the pool and you have to bond the WATER in the pool between the skimmer and the pump. Both these violation were not violations 12 years ago. Whoever heard of bonding water?

    The fence was an easy fix. We just made the fence board and batten within 18" of the latch and it passed inspection. The bonding of the pool to ground was a bit more complicated. First we had to find the proper fittings to bond water and integrate it into the line between the skimmer and the pump. Then we had to dig a trench 4" deep 16" away from the pool and lay a #8 bare coppery wire around the entire pool. Then we had to attach ground lugs to 6 point around the pool and attach them the ground loop with split nuts. The water bond was also connected to the loop and the loop was connected to pump ground. It passed inspection.

    The point of the story is that if she never got the permits the pool would not be up to code and if there were an incident where a child drowned because they got through the fence or someone was electrocuted during a storm, would she be covered by her homeowner's policy? The answer is no. They could deny coverage because it was not installed according to law and regulation.

    So work at your own peril Harold99.
    You asked and answered your own question. Where is an incident that supports your claim? Besides, you changed your claim. You said that if a permit is not pulled that either my liability insurance or the homeowner's policy will not cover that incident, which is untrue. You did not say that if I performed hazardous work and a child was hurt as a result of that shoddy work, that my insurance or the HO policy wouldn't cover it, which is also untrue.

    Auto insurance works that way. They cover drivers when they make mistakes or perform illegal moves that cause a crash. Life insurance works that way when a person does a stupid or illegal stunt and gets killed. Malpractice polices cover doctors when they make mistakes. Also, contractors are human too. We make mistakes and sometimes people get hurt. That is why we carry insurance...because we are human. If I did not support a ladder properly and it fell onto a Porsche, you are saying my liability insurance would not cover the damage?

    There are people out there that are smarter than you and me on this, and I have access to such a person as I said before. Well, I had the opportunity to ask him your question yesterday. He said he actually read his whole liability policy and nowhere in it does it say a contractor must pull a permit to be covered. We also will NOT loss our license if we do not pull a permit. I have also witnessed and/or performed water restoration damage claims for insurance companies. Never have they asked who was the last person to sweat that pipe, and did they pull a permit or clean the pipe properly before applying heat and solder?

    Your entire claim is false. Now if it could be proven that the contractor had malicious intent to hurt a child with electricity, maybe then they would not cover him.

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Harold99, you are in California right?

    https://www.cslb.ca.gov/Consumers/Fi...inary%20action.

    So if you don't know the law in the profession you claim you are an expert in why should anyone listen to you about ANY law?
    Hey Mr. Google, your internet access does not suddenly make you a lawyer, a contractor or an insurance agent. Also, what you wrote has nothing to do with Bud's claims. Go troll on someone else.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    4,237

    Default Re: Neighbors A/C Unit on My Property

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post



    Hey Mr. Google, your internet access does not suddenly make you a lawyer, a contractor or an insurance agent. Also, what you wrote has nothing to do with Bud's claims. Go troll on someone else.
    You are right it had nothing to do with budwad's post.

    If had to do with you saying,

    Nobody has to get a permit to do anything around their house. They get one if they choose to or if they get caught. But I would estimate that 90% of jobs that the city would like you to get a permit for, do not. I just GC'd and was a sub on two $200K remodels that did not pull permits.

    Which is clearly a violation of the law in California and yet another example of your cluelessness.

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