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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    8,152

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Semantics.
    Yes indeed. Semantics. And if you were not aware of it before, let me tell you that in the law how things are defined matter a great deal. You chose to define the term "effectively own" to suit your own purposes of defending your claim about ownership once I pointed out that in fact there are such things as private mailboxes. That's exactly the kind of tactic lawyers do looking for the definition that suits the case they wish to make, if the law doesn't already provide a specific definition. So congratulations, you are more like the lawyers that you say you hate than you perhaps realize. I told you that I was using the term in the more legal sense to effectively own something would mean having pretty much the same bundle of legal rights that a real owner would have. Within our own definitions we each may be right. But so what? None of that helps the OP with his problem, does it?

    I outlined before the practical impact for the OP of all of this. He can complain to the USPS about it, though for the reasons I stated earlier I doubt the USPS will care much about it. But it's free to complain to his local postmaster and maybe the local postmaster would feel like talking to the homeowner about it. If I were the OP I wouldn't hold my breath on that, though. That said, if I were in his shoes I'd at least take a shot at it. If the USPS doesn't care, then whether the OP has some legal recourse depends on additional facts that we don't have. But even if he does, the time and expense of pursuing that remedy might not be worth it. This probably will come down to negotiating whatever deal he can get with the homeowner. If you have a different take on what the OP can do, by all means please do share it.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    I’ve shown that I have a lot of tenacity, but I can only take so much from ‘The Club.’

    Gotta go out to make some money for those SS checks.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,152

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    Gotta go out to make some money for those SS checks.
    I'm not yet old enough to be eligible for SS, so you're not providing anything to me. At least not yet.

    And when you get to SS eligibility age you better hope that there are workers willing to pay those FICA taxes for your SS, too. Like it or not, that's the way the program has always worked.

    As far as your "club" goes, I disagree with anyone here when I think they're wrong. And I've disagreed with everyone of those who post here on any kind of a regular basis. So don't start thinking you're somehow special in that regard.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,615

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    You are so full of crap.
    Virtually everything "Harold99" has written at this site has been crap. And yet y'all keep arguing with him -- as though you think it'll make a damn bit of difference -- and bloating thread after thread beyond all reasonable proportion. ****ING STOP IT ALREADY!

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting pg1067
    View Post
    Virtually everything "Harold99" has written at this site has been crap. And yet y'all keep arguing with him -- as though you think it'll make a damn bit of difference -- and bloating thread after thread beyond all reasonable proportion. ****ING STOP IT ALREADY!
    With as many people that you "F" with here, I'm glad you feel it's coming back at you.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,008

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post

    But it does matter who owns them because the USPS does not have complete control over a mailbox you own as it does over the ones it owns. Though there are clearly rules that apply to mailboxes the laws and USPS rules as they apply to private mailboxes are not as extensive as you make them out to be.
    There is one question that begs an answer about your point of view here. Let's put aside things like mail covers (intercepting and examining exterior of mail by an agent of the government before it is delivered), if I own the mailbox and it is part of my property, do I have an expectation of privacy in the contents of my mailbox? Can an agent of the government open my mailbox and examine my mail without a warrant?

    Let's see if we came up with the same cases.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,152

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    There is one question that begs an answer about your point of view here. Let's put aside things like mail covers (intercepting and examining exterior of mail by an agent of the government before it is delivered), if I own the mailbox and it is part of my property, do I have an expectation of privacy in the contents of my mailbox? Can an agent of the government open my mailbox and examine my mail without a warrant?

    Let's see if we came up with the same cases.
    Just how does that relate to the OP's issue here? If there is no connection OP's issue then what is the goal of that exercise? And are you willing to pay for my time to do the legal research on it?

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    633

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Yes indeed. Semantics. And if you were not aware of it before, let me tell you that in the law how things are defined matter a great deal. You chose to define the term "effectively own" to suit your own purposes of defending your claim about ownership once I pointed out that in fact there are such things as private mailboxes. That's exactly the kind of tactic lawyers do — looking for the definition that suits the case they wish to make, if the law doesn't already provide a specific definition. So congratulations, you are more like the lawyers that you say you hate than you perhaps realize. I told you that I was using the term in the more legal sense — to effectively own something would mean having pretty much the same bundle of legal rights that a real owner would have. Within our own definitions we each may be right. But so what? None of that helps the OP with his problem, does it?

    Oh how you search for ways that the other person is wrong. But if I was your client, you'd be looking for ways that I would be right. Which proves this is just a dance for you.

    'Effectively owning' something is not the same as legally owning something, just as a virtual experience is not the same as an actually experience. But they are a form of 'owning' or 'experiencing' just the same.

    I asked you to describe a 'private mailbox' that the Fed does not have ultimate control over and you didn't/couldn't do it, yet you mention it again.

    An example that is very similar to 'effectively owning' something is a rental car. A renter has ultimate control over it, even is legally responsible for damage to it and others hurt by it, yet the renter did not buy that car. Webster says that is a form of 'owning' something, but why would a lawyer bow to Webster? Lawyers are masters at redefining words. Leasing and making payments on a car is another form of 'owning' a car but not legally owning it by paying for the whole car.

    As for the OP, he's gone and we are onto another subject about his mailbox. But if he followed the thread now, he'd know that whoever is messing with his mail within that box is not legally allowed to do that. So, he would benefit from this thread as much as pg1067 is annoyed by it.

    I outlined before the practical impact for the OP of all of this. He can complain to the USPS about it, though for the reasons I stated earlier I doubt the USPS will care much about it. But it's free to complain to his local postmaster and maybe the local postmaster would feel like talking to the homeowner about it. If I were the OP I wouldn't hold my breath on that, though. That said, if I were in his shoes I'd at least take a shot at it. If the USPS doesn't care, then whether the OP has some legal recourse depends on additional facts that we don't have. But even if he does, the time and expense of pursuing that remedy might not be worth it. This probably will come down to negotiating whatever deal he can get with the homeowner. If you have a different take on what the OP can do, by all means please do share it.
    The USPS is not a law enforcement agency which is why you recommended a futile approach like that. But they could offer legal text that contains the postal delivery law that could be shown to the homeowner. The carrier could even orally warn/inform the homeowner. Either would likely have an impact. Also, the OP could put up his own mailbox with is name on it. I am sure you thought of both of those scenarios but wouldn't mention it because the lawyer game of defeating me is what you are playing here.

    What I get from you is that you think you are an authority on the law because you can recite statutes and because you have a refined ability to twist words and mislead people, much like a Christian thinks they are an authority on Jesus Christ just because they can recite Scripture. However, I wouldn't trust either person to be accurate, unbiased and truthful.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,008

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
    View Post
    Just how does that relate to the OP's issue here? If there is no connection OP's issue then what is the goal of that exercise? And are you willing to pay for my time to do the legal research on it?


    Since you entered the debate over who has ownership and/or control of a USPS mailbox on private property I thought you would want to weigh in. If not, then maybe you are wrong on ownership of a USPS mailbox on private property once approved by the USPS for mail delivery.

    Like so many of these threads the OP question morphs into a debate of law. Why is this thread any different than others where you do a very good analysis of the case law without compensation? If it is compensation you want then we will have to negotiate.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    4,241

    Default Re: Banned from Mailbox

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post

    'Effectively owning' something is not the same as legally owning something, just as a virtual experience is not the same as an actually experience. But it is a form of 'owning' or 'exeriencing' just the same.
    And you bitch about semantics.
    I asked you to describe a 'private mailbox' that the Fed does not have ultimate control over and you didn't/couldn't do it, yet you mention it again.
    You've been given several. And you still refuse to respond to if the government owns your car.
    The USPS is not a law enforcement agency which is why you recommended a futile approach like that./QUOTE]
    And once again you are wrong. The USPS has a ~1200 Postal Inspectors and 500 Postal Police Officers who are all sworn, gun-toting, badge-wearing LEOs.

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