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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Paso Robles, California
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    540

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Edward, you can cite all the case law you want, the one I want to see is the one where YOU won your case based on your argument.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    I hope you're not hanging your hat on the case you linked to make the argument that an individual person is the sovereign.



    The use of the word people is used as a collective. Not an individual.
    Perhaps you should read Antonin Scalia's book. The 14th canon is Gender/Number. It states that the use of the word "he" includes "she" (and vice versa). And the use of the pural includes the singleler (and vice versa). Figured you'd know that. Lol

    Quote Quoting Jim Kozlovich
    View Post
    Edward, you can cite all the case law you want, the one I want to see is the one where YOU won your case based on your argument.
    That'll be around the end of Sept-Oct. So unless someone actually has facts that negates my facts, I can do without additional comments.

    Edit: Plural not pural. Singular not singleler.
    I need to start sleeping at night.

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Quote Quoting Edward333
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    Nope. Not since the late 90's. A "driver's" license is only required for "passenger" cars. Both commercial terms.
    Once again incorrect. There can be an infinite number of definitions for those terms. That doesn't mean you can cherry pick a sentence from some random case and say that it applies. You have to look at the definitions in the section you were cited for.

    Quote Quoting Edward333
    View Post
    Passenger. In general, a passenger is one who gives compensation for a ride. Shapiro v. Bookspan, 155 Cal.App.2d 353, 318 P.2d 123, 126.
    You obviously did not read this case. It has to do with the specific wording of a California Vehicle code. As you were not cited in California the wording of their vehicle code has no bearing on Tennessee law.


    Quote Quoting Edward333
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    The word passen ger has however various meanings, depending upon the circumstances under which and the context in which the word is used; sometimes it is construed in a restricted legal sense as referring to one who is being carried by another for hire; on other occasions, the word is interpreted as meaning any occupant of a vehicle other than the person operating it. American Mercury Ins. Co. v. Bifulco, 74 N.J. Super. 191, 181 A.2d 20, 22.
    Once again you obviously did not read this case did you? See the bolded section. Passengers can mean anyone who is in the vehicle. Nothing about it being commercial, or for hire, or anything else. Just being present. The courts based the definition they chose off of Civil Air Regulations and the fact there was no specific definition of passenger in them. They were forced by case doctrine to chose the definition most favorable for the complainant. So unless you were taxiing a plane down the roadway, or for some weird reason Tennessee does not have a vehicle or passenger vehicle defined in their laws, this case will not help you.

    Quote Quoting Edward333
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    The essential elements of "passenger" as opposed to "guest" under guest statute are that driver must receive some benefit sufficiently real, tangible, and substantial to serve as the inducing cause of the transportation so as to completely overshadow mere hospitality or friendship; it may be easier to find compensation where the trip has commercial or busi ness flavor. Friedhoff v. Engberg, 82 S.D. 522, 149 N.W.2d 759, 761, 762, 763.
    Once again, did you even read the case? Just like the first it has to do with the specific wording of a South Dakota statute. As you were charged under Tennessee law, the wording of a South Dakota statute will have no bearing on your case.



    Quote Quoting Edward333
    View Post
    Perhaps you should read Antonin Scalia's book. The 14th canon is Gender/Number. It states that the use of the word "he" includes "she" (and vice versa). And the use of the pural includes the singleler (and vice versa). Figured you'd know that.
    You are fundamentally misunderstanding what the ruling was stating. It states that sovereignty comes from the people. Meaning that people have the ultimate power in the government. If they don't like what is happening they can vote someone in to change it. Or they can recall someone who they view is doing a poor job. No elected official is above the power and sovereignty of the people. This gives them ultimate sovereignty over the government. It does not state that you can just ignore or not abide by any laws that you do not like, just because "its not hurting anyone". You have the sovereignty to change the laws, not ignore them.

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,385

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Quote Quoting Fuzzz
    View Post
    Once again incorrect. There can be an infinite number of definitions for those terms. That doesn't mean you can cherry pick a sentence from some random case and say that it applies. You have to look at the definitions in the section you were cited for.



    You obviously did not read this case. It has to do with the specific wording of a California Vehicle code. As you were not cited in California the wording of their vehicle code has no bearing on Tennessee law.




    Once again you obviously did not read this case did you? See the bolded section. Passengers can mean anyone who is in the vehicle. Nothing about it being commercial, or for hire, or anything else. Just being present. The courts based the definition they chose off of Civil Air Regulations and the fact there was no specific definition of passenger in them. They were forced by case doctrine to chose the definition most favorable for the complainant. So unless you were taxiing a plane down the roadway, or for some weird reason Tennessee does not have a vehicle or passenger vehicle defined in their laws, this case will not help you.



    Once again, did you even read the case? Just like the first it has to do with the specific wording of a South Dakota statute. As you were charged under Tennessee law, the wording of a South Dakota statute will have no bearing on your case.





    You are fundamentally misunderstanding what the ruling was stating. It states that sovereignty comes from the people. Meaning that people have the ultimate power in the government. If they don't like what is happening they can vote someone in to change it. Or they can recall someone who they view is doing a poor job. No elected official is above the power and sovereignty of the people. This gives them ultimate sovereignty over the government. It does not state that you can just ignore or not abide by any laws that you do not like, just because "its not hurting anyone". You have the sovereignty to change the laws, not ignore them.
    We, the people have the sovereignty to change the laws through elections. Stating that "You have the sovereignty to change the laws, not ignore them" will just enable the OP...sadly.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    What I meant to say was that you have the sovereignty to petition to change laws, support candidates, run for office, file for recalls, etc. Well established and legal change to the laws and function of government. Not the sovereignty to just willy nilly change the laws or their interpretations to however you see fit without going through the proper process.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    427

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Quote Quoting Edward333
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    Perhaps you should read Antonin Scalia's book. The 14th canon is Gender/Number. It states that the use of the word "he" includes "she" (and vice versa). And the use of the pural includes the singleler (and vice versa). Figured you'd know that. Lol
    You do not need to read any book to know that, proving once again you know little about the law. It's already part of TN law as with other states and Statutory Construction elements. Figured you know that! LOL.


    Chapter 3 - Construction of Statutes

    1-3-104. Tense -- Gender -- Number of words.

    Universal Citation: TN Code 1-3-104 (2019)

    (a) Words used in this code in the past or present tense include the future, and the future tense includes the present.

    (b) Words importing the masculine gender include the feminine and neuter, except when the contrary intention is manifest.

    (c) Singular includes the plural and the plural the singular, except when the contrary intention is manifest.

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    If you'll notice my previous posts, I have already stated that we can't ignore laws.

    Passenger definition is from multiple editions of Black's Law. And see :
    Fixed Meaning Canon. Words must be giving the meaning they had when the text was adopted.
    Words must be read with the gloss of the experience of those who framed them. United States v. Rabinowitz 339 U. S. 56, 70 (1950)

    You may also want to try reading some of the Passenger Case laws.

    The cases that defines the difference between a passenger and a guest.

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    540

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Quote Quoting Edward333
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    If you'll notice my previous posts, I have already stated that we can't ignore laws.
    Then maybe you should just slow down, unless you think these speed limit laws don't apply to you.
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Try :Bowmanv.Collins
    Court of Appeal of California, Fourth DistrictJun 16, 1960
    181 Cal.App.2d 807 (Cal. Ct. App. 1960) to start and work your way back.

    Quote Quoting Jim Kozlovich
    View Post
    Then maybe you should just slow down, unless you think these speed limit laws don't apply to you.
    LMAO. I don't have speeding tickets. There were never any points against my license.

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    427

    Default Re: Is Driving a Privilege or a Right

    Quote Quoting Edward333
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    Words must be giving the meaning they had when the text was adopted.
    Words must be read with the gloss of the experience of those who framed them. United States v. Rabinowitz 339 U. S. 56, 70 (1950)
    Once again, an abstract useless citation. Read this Syllabus from a just decided case, on what the word/phrase meant then, as opposed to what it should mean now, and what it does mean now.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...-1618_SYLLABUS

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