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  1. #1
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    Nov 2016
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    Default the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    -dea how to do it.

    Tried this elsewhere, but it didn't work. Please let's not talk politics and social/race issues here - this is a genuine attempt by me to try and help. Nothing more.

    First off, this is not exclusive to the George Floyd situation; it can apply to many. The first other one that comes to mind is Eric Garner.

    Second, I am sure that others elsewhere (maybe here?) have thought about this, and talked about it, so I am certainly not looking to take credit where credit is not due. But, TBH, I have not heard/seen this convo anywhere.

    I have an answer to a part of this problem... it's not the be all end all that will solve everything, but had this been done a long time ago, both Garner and Floyd would still be alive. As well as many others.

    It centers around turning these low-level, petty offenses that pose no great danger to society, from arrestable offenses into payable offenses.

    Let's assume that Floyd was in fact knowingly and willingly passing a counterfeit $20 bill. I don't want to convict him here, as I do not know what happened, but for the sake of having a discussion, let's assume that he did. Does that really need to be an arrestable offense? Why not write him a summons? Does Garner, who was illegally selling cigarettes on the street really need to be hauled off to jail? Why not write him a summons? If I blow a stop sign or get caught speeding on the hwy, I don't get arrested. I get a summons. Ok, if I am going WAY over the limit, yes I get arrested. But if I am doing 78 in a 55, I don't get hauled off to jail. What's more dangereous? Who is more of a threat to society? Me, by speeding/blowing a stop sign, or the other guy who is knowingly and willingly passing a counterfeit $20? I am. But I get a fine, while the other guy gets arrested. How does that make sense?

    In most of these cases, the officers do not have the option of writing a summons - b/c the crime they are responding to is an arrestable offense. This needs to be fixed. And it can be fixed.

    The question is, how can someone like myself go about this? Should I write letters to the state legislatures of all 50 states, asking for this? Something tells me I wouldn't get very far. Is there a proper way to petition the legislatures? Should I hire an atty? I dont mind putting some of my own money towards this, but hiring 50 attys is in no way possible.

    Anyone have any ideas here?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Riff, simply because it is an arrestable offense does not mean that an arrest is mandatory, not talking about felonies now.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Quote Quoting riffwraith
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    -dea how to do it.In most of these cases, the officers do not have the option of writing a summons - b/c the crime they are responding to is an arrestable offense. This needs to be fixed. And it can be fixed.
    For most offenses, even felonies, the police are not required to make an arrest. The could simply turn the evidence over to the prosecutor and the prosecutor files the charges. And that would all work great if the suspect will then show up at the scheduled court appearances to answer for the offense. Cops arrest these guys because they think (and not without some reason) that if they don't the guy will skip out and never show up for the court appearances. The point here is that you don't necessarily need a change in the law to accomplish what you want. A change in the policy the police and prosecutors use for those kinds of offenses may be enough, at least in some states. They'd just need to be convinced that the change would be a good one. And there are places that are tying some similar things. As I recall, for example, Philadelphia has moved away from bail for most low level offenses. So for many minor crimes the suspect is booked and charged and then let go. If a suspect knows that will be the procedure he or she is less likely to resist the arrest in the first place because they won't be sitting in jail. Not as easy as simply writing a summons to appear, but not far from it. As each state's laws are different and each police department and prosecutor has different policies there isn't a one size fits all path to implement your idea nationwide. And indeed you likely wouldn't get uniformity on that nationwide anyway. But a good place to start is to perhaps persuade the police and prosecutors in your state to do what they can within the existing state law to minimize arrest or at least the need for bail for minor offense.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Quote Quoting RJR
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    Riff, simply because it is an arrestable offense does not mean that an arrest is mandatory, not talking about felonies now.
    Almost nothing is mandatory to a cop. He applies the law as he wishes, but, what percentage of 'arrestable offenses' is a perp arrested for? I'd say a very high amount. Especially when cops get credit for making arrests.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Here's the other side of your suggestion (no flames, please) --

    Why don't we each own our behavior and accept the consequences of our actions? If you knowingly pass a fake $20 and are caught, why not just own that you were committing a crime and quietly accept your arrest? If you knew what you were doing (and I don't know if he did or not)?

    If you knowingly sell cigarettes illegally, why not just accept the consequences of your actions and go quietly, show up for court, and pay your fine or serve your time?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Quote Quoting paddywakk
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    Here's the other side of your suggestion (no flames, please) --

    Why don't we each own our behavior and accept the consequences of our actions? If you knowingly pass a fake $20 and are caught, why not just own that you were committing a crime and quietly accept your arrest? If you knew what you were doing (and I don't know if he did or not)?

    If you knowingly sell cigarettes illegally, why not just accept the consequences of your actions and go quietly, show up for court, and pay your fine or serve your time?
    How about you, as a cop, not kneel on a man's neck for 8 minutes?

    You want people to own up to their actions? Fine, let's start with the people that are supposed to be held to a higher standard such as the police, legislators, firefighters and the like? You are asking for a great deal from the regular person on the street when those whose whole mission is service (to protect and serve) are allowed to act with virtual impunity. If I have to follow the law but the police, legislators and others in positions authority don't have to then what sort of system are we running here? Oh, right, it's called a dictatorship.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  7. #7
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    How about you, as a cop, not kneel on a man's neck for 8 minutes?
    I don't think anyone is now saying that the kneeling on the neck for 8 minutes was the right thing to do. The cop has been charged with murder.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    I don't think anyone is now saying that the kneeling on the neck for 8 minutes was the right thing to do. The cop has been charged with murder.
    Hey, the OP wants to say that total personal accountability is the solution and called out these two particular incidents. Given how often violence is done to those in custody by those that are supposed to be watching over them I think accountability would be a real step up! Prisoners punched while in cuffs, choked out either until unconscious or until dead. Pepper sprayed while in custody. Tased repeatedly while on the ground. There's little accountability for police when it comes to violence perpetrated by them.

    In the past few weeks there have been countless acts of police brutality. I don't excuse the violence that was perpetrated by protesters but it's unquestionable that police, who are armored, used violence as a tool of first resort. Tear gas (banned by the Geneva Convention in war), rubber bullets, pepper bullets, assaulted members of the press, assaulted a 9 y.o. girl, police holding protesters shirts and just punching them in the face over and over, driving by a stoop and opening fire with pepper bullets at people sitting on the stoop yelling "light 'em up, boys!". The use of the military to secure a photo op. This stuff is all out there and it's well documented. Seattle alone had more than 12,000 complaints of police misconduct.

    But I digress. Accountability works both ways. I'll not hold my breath.

    Oh, there's no way to not discuss politics with this topic, OP. This is the embodiment of politics. This is all about how the State uses its tools (the police) against the People.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  9. #9
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    In the past few weeks there have been countless acts of police brutality. I don't excuse the violence that was perpetrated by protesters but it's unquestionable that police, who are armored, used violence as a tool of first resort. Tear gas (banned by the Geneva Convention in war), rubber bullets, pepper bullets, assaulted members of the press, assaulted a 9 y.o. girl, police holding protesters shirts and just punching them in the face over and over, driving by a stoop and opening fire with pepper bullets at people sitting on the stoop yelling "light 'em up, boys!". The use of the military to secure a photo op. This stuff is all out there and it's well documented. Seattle alone had more than 12,000 complaints of police misconduct.
    Don't forget intentionally shooting less-lethal rounds at people clearly outside the line of fire like the kid who was up a hill from the protesters who got his skull fractured by a bean bag round. Oh yeah, shoving old men to the ground too. I'm pro-cop but the amount of flat-out law breaking we've been seeing makes it hard.
    I am the Mouse Man

  10. #10
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    Default Re: the George Floyd Situation, Et Al. I Have an Idea on How to Help, but Have No I

    I am pro-cop to the 90% that are good cops. However, I despise the 10% that are bad cops.

    The good cops cannot stop the bad cops. We saw proof of that during the Floyd incident when the Asian cop (if he is a good cop) would not stop the bad cop from killing him. As for the other two on Floyd's back, they were on the force a matter of days. No way would they say 'boo.' to what was happening or their careers were done.

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