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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    16

    Default Re: Late Fees

    The landlord is also asking me to pay 4 back rents I forgot plus all late fees from last 4 years. Can I refuse both late fees and back rents that are more than 3 years, or I can be in trouble if I refuse

    Yes but landlord is in violation of doctrine of latches to ask me to pay for something that happened MORE THAN 3 years ago. Today she woke up and tells me of missing payments more than 3 years longer.

    Quote Quoting pg1067
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    How are you supposed to know? You're kidding, right? You knew that you didn't pay your rent on time. You knew what the lease said about late payments. So why should the landlord have to ask or remind you about something you were already aware of? The lease even said that the landlord had no obligation to make a demand.




    And the only logical response to this is that you should have paid your rent on time.



    Everything in the quote box is in italics. Please don't post new content in the quote box.

  2. #22
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    Oct 2016
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    4,301

    Default Re: Late Fees

    Quote Quoting alexnc22
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    I just notice the lease says "applicable late fees to the rent be made payable without being demanded". So how the heck I am to know if the landlord never asked me or reminded me? This should not be enforceable? 60 per incident is a now a very huge sum.
    Did you not know your rent was due in day X and that you paid it on day X+(insert the days after due date here).

    Quote Quoting alexnc22
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    The landlord is also asking me to pay 4 back rents I forgot plus all late fees from last 4 years. Can I refuse both late fees and back rents that are more than 3 years, or I can be in trouble if I refuse

    Yes but landlord is in violation of doctrine of latches to ask me to pay for something that happened MORE THAN 3 years ago. Today she woke up and tells me of missing payments more than 3 years longer.
    Sure you can refuse. You will get none of your deposit back and when the landlord sues you he will win.




    This likely the last time I will post to this thread because I'm pretty sure the OP and Harrold99 are the same person. Plus all the information the OP needs have been previously posted.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
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    2,745

    Default Re: Late Fees

    Quote Quoting alexnc22
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    The landlord is also asking me to pay 4 back rents I forgot plus all late fees from last 4 years. Can I refuse both late fees and back rents that are more than 3 years, or I can be in trouble if I refuse
    Four back rent payments? Shocking that you didn't get evicted for that.

    Of course you can refuse. Presumably, your landlord will keep your security deposit. Assuming your security deposit doesn't cover everything you owe, your landlord may then sue you for the balance. You won't get in any "trouble" beyond that.


    Quote Quoting alexnc22
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    Yes but landlord is in violation of doctrine of latches to ask me to pay for something that happened MORE THAN 3 years ago.
    Sigh...no, he isn't.

    First of all, it's laches (no "t").

    Second, I'm assuming you have no clue what laches actually is (nor would I expect you to be familiar with it -- indeed, I don't imagine you ever heard the word before today).

    Laches is what's called an equitable defense. It's something that someone who has been sued raises as an affirmative defense. An affirmative defense is something that a person who has been sued and the plaintiff's claim is otherwise meritorious. In your case, you would argue that, despite the fact that you breached the contract by failing to pay rent as agreed and failing to pay late fees pursuant to the lease, you shouldn't have a judgment entered against you because of some reason.

    Laches is a defense that says the plaintiff unreasonably delayed in pursuing a legal right and that the delay resulted in prejudice to the defendant. For example, Steven buys property next door to Harold and hires a contractor to begin construction of a house. Harold knows that the house is being built on the property line (and Steven does not know), but he doesn’t say anything. Four years later, Harold and Steven have a disagreement, and Harold files a civil lawsuit, seeking to be paid for that portion of his property that now sits underneath Steven’s house. Steven would argue laches in his defense. Had Harold brought this to Steven’s or the contractor’s attention at the time of construction, the structure could have easily been moved.

    In your case, you were aware of the debt and suffered no prejudice as a result of the delay. One could even say you realized a benefit because you didn't get evicted. A delay in suing for money never (or virtually never) results in a valid claim of laches.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: Late Fees

    Please do not listen to Harold99. He has no clue what he talks about, and he certainly is 100% wrong with NC law.

    LACHES doesn't apply here at this point. They can certainly by law and right withhold the late fees from your rent. They already have your money. Laches is something that is asserted in a defense. Even if it were applicable, in NC the case law is that it's not just the passage of time. There's no "limitations" on asserting a claim. You have to show that not only has time gone by but something has materially changed based on that time.
    I'm not seeing it here.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Late Fees

    ok, I forgot to pay this and I will, I appreciate the forum for educating.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    750

    Default Re: Late Fees

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    Please do not listen to Harold99. He has no clue what he talks about, and he certainly is 100% wrong with NC law.
    I don't recall saying anything about NC law so how could I be wrong?

    As for notifying tenants of late payments, there are major provisions protecting renters from overly aggressive, ignorant landlords. But you'd would know that if you ever evicted someone.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3,212

    Default Re: Late Fees

    According to the OP, late fees were explained in the lease the OP signed. By signing the lease the OP acknowledged he or she read, understood and accepted responsibility for the terms of the lease. The OP not paying four months of rent says a lot about his or her character, or lack there of.

    I managed property for several years. I evicted tenants when their rent was two weeks past due and no acceptable arrangements had been made to catch up. It is tenants responsibility to pay their rent on time. If late fees are incurred, it is tenants responsibility to pay them.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    16,474

    Default Re: Late Fees

    Quote Quoting Mercy&Grace
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    According to the OP, late fees were explained in the lease the OP signed. By signing the lease the OP acknowledged he or she read, understood and accepted responsibility for the terms of the lease. The OP not paying four months of rent says a lot about his or her character, or lack there of.

    I managed property for several years. I evicted tenants when their rent was two weeks past due and no acceptable arrangements had been made to catch up. It is tenants responsibility to pay their rent on time. If late fees are incurred, it is tenants responsibility to pay them.
    I get what you are saying, but what landlord keeps a tenant for 4 years, when there are 4 months back rent owed? I could maybe see a landlord being lackadaisical about unpaid late fees but actual rent? It just doesn't make sense to me.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    750

    Default Re: Late Fees

    I highly doubt that a landlord can choose not to collect rent for a period of time, never ask for the rent, never notify them of the late fees, then demand all the rent and late payments months down the road.

    Running a property management business is not learned off the internet like some here think.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    8,238

    Default Re: Late Fees

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    I highly doubt that a landlord can choose not to collect rent for a period of time, never ask for the rent, never notify them of the late fees, then demand all the rent and late payments months down the road.
    Actually, in most states a landlord may do just that. In most states, including North Carolina, as long as the landlord sues for the money owed within the statute of limitations (SOL) the landlord may pursue it. There is no requirement in NC law (or the law of most other states) that the landlord make immediate demand for late fees or late rent or risk not collecting them. NC statute §42-46 covers the law on imposing and collecting various fees for residential leases. The limitations on collection of the fees is in subsection (h). You'll note that in that subsection there is no requirement of prompt demand by the landlord for the late fee. Without such an express requirement, the only time limit imposed is the SOL. It appears that in NC the SOL for suing on claims of rent or breach of a written contract is 3 years. So to extent the landlord is trying to collect for payments that should have been made more than 3 years ago, the landlord will be out of luck.

    However, under NC law, if the late fees exceeded the maximum amount allowed by law, even by a penny, then the entire late fee is invalid and none of the late fee may be collected. Efforts to collect an invalid late fee then may subject the landlord to damages for violations of the NC Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act and the NC Debt Collection Act and thus result in statutory damages. For example, in a case where the allowed fee would have been $30.50, the landlord's computer rounded up the fee to $31. That rounding violated the statute:

    We hold that although Northwinds only charged and Ms. Friday only paid a $30 late fee each time her rent was late, the $31 late fee provision of the Northwinds lease agreement is contrary to the provisions of G.S. § 42–46(a) and therefore void and unenforceable as against North Carolina public policy.

    Friday v. United Dominion Realty Tr., Inc., 155 N.C. App. 671, 676, 575 S.E.2d 532, 535 (2003). The court then went on to say that the trial court's determination that the landlord violated the Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices Act and Debt Collection Act with respect to the late fees was affirmed, though the amount of the penalty imposed may need to be adjusted. So while the landlord can still go after valid fees that are within the SOL, if the landlord screwed up and charged any fees in excess of what the statute allows then the landlord has a problem, one that might cost the landlord thousands in statutory penalties.

    The OP might want to have a consultation with an attorney to review the facts and see if the landlord may have violated any of the fee provisions in the statute. There may be a renter's organization or legal aid organization that would assist the OP for free for that review.

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