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  1. #31
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    Feb 2020
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    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Guys and Gals. We have just turned ANOTHER poster's thread into the Harold99 show. Lets stop feeding the troll.
    Re-read the thread from the beginning. Every poster here thread drifted it starting with Jack and then TM. I came in after them. Get your facts straight. Also the OP did not agree with the fear mongering and never came back so he obviously does not want to hear the media-spin responses.

    OK TM, I got a good night sleep an will respond to your false claims.

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Really? And what reliable sources have you that prove me wrong? The reason why we've not seen a swell of cases all over the country that exceed the capacity of hospitals to handle them is that the states that have had the worst outbreaks took steps to reduce the spread before it got too out of hand.
    That is not true. The early predictions of hundreds of thousands dead by Fauci factored in stay-at-home orders. They were grossly wrong about the death count, spread rate, infection rate, need for healthcare facilities, shortage of ventilators, makeshift triage centers, hospital ships, shortage of doctors and nurses.

    A friend of mine who is a respiratory therapist and thus works directly on covid-19 patients in the hospitals he serves told me that at the peak of the problem in his area they did indeed lack enough ventilators and ICU space for the patients who needed them.
    The outcry for more ventilator was very loud and overstated. Sure NY might have needed more at one time but the initial estimates were exagerated and never needed.

    Fortunately the state shut things down around the same time and the situation has stabilized in his area, though he is still having to work 12 hours a day seven days a week, same as all the other respiratory therapists, to ensure they have enough coverage to treat everyone.
    As said, the death predictions factored in the states to shut down. They were wrong and it never hit us like Fauci claimed it would.

    So the resources of that community are still stretched thin. If your community is not heavily impacted by it, that's great. I hope for your sake and that of your community it stays that way.
    We shut our country down due to incorrect models. Plain, simple and tragic. If some communities felt shortages of beds, doctors or ventilators, why scare the whole country by claiming we will all be in that shape?

    It varies from place to place in this country.
    That is a redundant statement. Of course the whole country will not be affected the same. But the initial scare continued to be told to the whole country equally.

    I live in an area more impacted than some, so there are concerns about availability of ventilators and ICU space.
    The whole country was once clamoring for more ventilators in anticipation of needing them. When next to none needed them like we were told. Within weeks we knew the triage centers, hospitals floors, doctors, nurses, floating hospital boats were not needed because the crisis never rose to the level we were told it would. And, to say "thank goodness" does not cut it...they were wrong.

    But the hospitals and clinics have not closed up the other services needed by those who don't have covid-19.
    Yes many have, which has caused hospitals to suffer major financial losses and for people to put off routine, elective and non-emergency medical care.

    Indeed, the very large medical practice where I get my care sent out an e-mail just a few days ago urging patients not to put off getting needed care, stating that they have the resources to provide treatment for other conditions and outlining the steps they've taken to protect patients needed those other services to reduce the risk they'll get covid-19.
    Yes, mine have too. It's because they are suffering financial losses because patients have been turned away, doctors furloughed, floors closed and patients afraid of going near a hospital for fear of contracting Covid.

    Further, if you are not aware of what I am saying it is because you are either watching mainstream media or you are not seeking outside information other than Fauci.

    Quote Quoting cbg
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    I don't know where you get the idea that I'm getting my information from the media.

    Since you like to play "gotcha" games, Harold, here's one for you.

    Where AM I getting my information from, since it is not the media?
    I will alter my statement. Your comments mimic those of the mainstream media. Where you get those ideas can vary. But, since you are very selective about what you respond to and will not answer direct questions, I can hardly "gotcha" you. You've learned with tens of thousands of posts to play the forum game well...which is how you stay afloat here.

  2. #32
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    OK TM, I got a good night sleep an will respond to your false claims.
    You've responded but you have not proven my statements false. You've simply stated your views of the matter, without any support for them. Fair enough as far as that goes, but don't expect me to rely on you as an authoritative source. By the same token, I don't expect you to rely on me as authoritative source either, so that leaves neither of us convincing the other.

  3. #33
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    Feb 2020
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    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    You've responded but you have not proven my statements false. You've simply stated your views of the matter, without any support for them. Fair enough as far as that goes, but don't expect me to rely on you as an authoritative source. By the same token, I don't expect you to rely on me as authoritative source either, so that leaves neither of us convincing the other.
    I have listened to well over 20 virologists, MD's, epidemiologists and the like who support what I am saying. The information is out there and me offering you websites will not make it any more persuading to you. I asked all here to use their skills of detecting BS in a news report or why the three TV doctors changed their professional opinion overnight. All I heard were crickets. So, until now, you have not shown that you are qualified to detect the missing and skewed information that is being fed to us.

    Like I said, if you have not come across professional opinions that support what I am saying, it is because you are not curios or open to it.

  4. #34
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    I have listened to well over 20 virologists, MD's, epidemiologists and the like who support what I am saying. The information is out there and me offering you websites will not make it any more persuading to you.
    And I listened to many experts, too, including some I know personally, and have read a number of medical studies on the issue that support what I am saying. I've heard and seen the claims you've made but do not consider them as convincing as the ones on which I rely. As I said before, that leaves us at a spot where neither will convince the other, and you seem to have reached the same conclusion on that point. So that seems to me a good place to leave it.

  5. #35
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    Feb 2020
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    388

    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    And I listened to many experts, too, including some I know personally, and have read a number of medical studies on the issue that support what I am saying. I've heard and seen the claims you've made but do not consider them as convincing as the ones on which I rely. As I said before, that leaves us at a spot where neither will convince the other, and you seem to have reached the same conclusion on that point. So that seems to me a good place to leave it.
    I agree, we can leave it where it is. But I will make two assumptions about you that may likely affect your bias:

    1) You are minimally financially affected by this.

    2) You are of an age or health condition that you feel covid could be possibly fatal to you.

    BTW, I am not asking you to answer either of these personal assumptions.

  6. #36
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    Oct 2006
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    16,190

    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    I agree, we can leave it where it is. But I will make two assumptions about you that may likely affect your bias:

    1) You are minimally financially affected by this.

    2) You are of an age or health condition that you feel covid could be possibly fatal to you.

    BTW, I am not asking you to answer either of these personal assumptions.
    Harold, clearly you are seriously effected financially by this pandemic. However, at the same time you don't seem to be willing to take whatever measure are necessary to both allow you to get back to work at full capacity, but also protect those people who could die from Covid.

    My boss is not opening up our practice for face to face appointments, which some of our customers seriously want, because some of our customers and some of our staff, insist that they will NOT wear face masks or gloves, under any circumstances. I would not be opposed to my boss opening things up for face to face appointments if everyone was willing to wear masks and gloves. I would be a little nervous, but I would not be opposed. However there are more than a few people out there who seem to care more about what's convenient for them, than what might protect other people around them.

    You seem to fall into that category.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    667

    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting spokanedriver
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    And I will not go through my life, in its remaining entirety, seeking shelter and hiding.
    And no one is telling you to do so. But, given that you seem to have some type of shared custody, the other parent is allowed to object to your taking the child along for the ride. Surely, the 11yo will survive missing one trip. Plan something else for your parenting time.

  8. #38
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    Feb 2020
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    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Harold, clearly you are seriously effected financially by this pandemic. However, at the same time you don't seem to be willing to take whatever measure are necessary to both allow you to get back to work at full capacity, but also protect those people who could die from Covid.
    Not true! I am minimally effected by this financially. I am an essential worker, and though I saw an initial loss of work for about a month, which I am always prepared for, my work has picked back up. Also with PPP, unemployment (that is now available for the self employed) and the stimulus money, I'm doing fine.

    My point to TM is that those that have not and will not lose a dime on this are the first ones beating the lockdown drum. It is easy for someone to pretend to care about the financial carnage this is causing to individuals and our economy when they haven't suffered any loss at all. So "we are (not) all in this together." There are millions of people being forced into bankruptcy all for an overblown, misled 'flu.'

    My boss is not opening up our practice for face to face appointments, which some of our customers seriously want, because some of our customers and some of our staff, insist that they will NOT wear face masks or gloves, under any circumstances. I would not be opposed to my boss opening things up for face to face appointments if everyone was willing to wear masks and gloves. I would be a little nervous, but I would not be opposed. However there are more than a few people out there who seem to care more about what's convenient for them, than what might protect other people around them.

    You seem to fall into that category.
    Your staff won't come back for two reason, IMO. They are not convinced by what they see on the ground that there is a real threat to them (so no stupid masks), and, they are making more money through unemployment for sitting on the cough and riding their bikes.

    If you look at the inflated, bogus numbers, as TM and others like to do, and you are a smart person and not just intelligent, you will form a certain conclusion. That is, there are two distinct groups of people that we should be divided into. There are people that knowingly come in contact with the infected every day and those like us that do not. The deaths are overwhelmingly coming from (up to 70%) from nursing homes, retirement homes, hospitals staff, prisons, subways, police, firemen, paramedics, first responders, those that house the infected, etc. We are not those people! We do not willingly or knowingly come in contact with the infected. We, as a whole, have never even seen a person with it, yet we are led to be scared that we will get it from walking past someone in the supermarket. BS! If it was spreading that way, the numbers would be WAY higher. All the employees at my local markets would be infected. But what we get is one guy here or one guy there who probably got if from his father who is a doctor or prison guard.

    We are not being forced to work around the infected like those people are. They are the ones that are predominantly spreading it. That is why we have a minimal effect on the spread rate. The weather and heard immunity will have a better effect on it than us being locked in our homes. But you will not hear any of this from our media or Fauci.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Quote Quoting jumanji
    View Post
    And no one is telling you to do so. But, given that you seem to have some type of shared custody, the other parent is allowed to object to your taking the child along for the ride. Surely, the 11yo will survive missing one trip. Plan something else for your parenting time.
    New information regarding the other parent, they recently purchased our children annual passes to a local amusement park. The other parent plans to drop off the 2 children at the park, alone, and come pick them up when ready. I only bring this up because i think it plays a factor in the other parents decision making choices that they will allow the child to go alone to a busy amusement park, crowded, but not allow me the vacation time how I'd like

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    24,384

    Default Re: Out of Country Vacation

    Given that the OP is now back and talking about the original question he asked, can we turn off the Harold99 Soapbox Show and get back to the business of the thread?

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