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  1. #21
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    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    That is where we differ. The law is not what it is. The law is how it is applied and to whom it applies to.

    If a jury does not want to follow the law, they do not have to.
    Yes they do, if they do not, a judge can and will throw out their verdict.

    If a lawyer can convict a person who did not break the law, he has every right to. If he can get a person off who obviously broke the law, he has every right to.
    Lawyers do not convict anyone. Judges and juries convict people. Yes, if an attorney is able to make a convincing enough argument to a judge or jury that someone should or should not be convicted then someone who is innocent might go to jail, and someone who is guilty might get off. However, it is not blatant, as you seem to imagine.

    So, the law is not the law. Bs'ing about the law and manipulating people about the law is the law of the land.
    The law IS the law. It is not all BS and manipulation although yes, there can be some manipulation. You are watching too much TV.

    As I said, quoting laws is for selling something to the naive. Example: Try warning someone about going 5mph over the limit. They will laugh in the face of your quoted law, that you say "is what it is," because they are not naive.
    Yes, its generally safe to go no more than 5 miles over the speed limit. Why? Because there are not enough policemen in the world to catch every driver who drives 5 miles or less over the speed limit. That doesn't mean that someone will NEVER get pulled over for that. It just means it's unlikely.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
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    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Is common sense and life experience foreign to you?

    My point is who cares if something is illegal, like spitting in a dirt field, if there is little chance of getting cited for it.

    People that actually go outside their house know the laws that are enforced and those that are not. It's called common sense and situational awareness. Most of life cannot be learned on Google, as you are trying to do here.



    You should be asking TM how he knows this when he said "most juries also do take account of the evidence they heard and the judge's instructions on the law."

    So, since it was left out of TM's post, we are to assume that most juries can objectively analyze evidence, vacate their bias and not be influenced by a trial lawyer's theatrical dance he does in front of them?

    Let's see if you ask TM or cover for him?
    This is so far out in the weeds that even Harold's biases and preconceived notions can't find him.

    Harold, take a fistful of Valium and chill out.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Is common sense and life experience foreign to you?

    My point is who cares if something is illegal, like spitting in a dirt field, if there is little chance of getting cited for it.

    People that actually go outside their house know the laws that are enforced and those that are not. It's called common sense and situational awareness. Most of life cannot be learned on Google, as you are trying to do here.
    Your problem, assuming for a second you aren't simply a troll, is that you seem to think that your personal experiences are the rule for everyone. They aren't. Do I know that I can drive 9 miles over the posted limit on the Interstate and likely at least 5 MPH over in most other places, sure I do. But I'm not about to advise someone here to do it because it would be illegal for them to do so.

  4. #24
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    Feb 2020
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    401

    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Yes they do, if they do not, a judge can and will throw out their verdict.

    Lawyers do not convict anyone. Judges and juries convict people. Yes, if an attorney is able to make a convincing enough argument to a judge or jury that someone should or should not be convicted then someone who is innocent might go to jail, and someone who is guilty might get off. However, it is not blatant, as you seem to imagine.

    The law IS the law. It is not all BS and manipulation although yes, there can be some manipulation. You are watching too much TV.

    Yes, its generally safe to go no more than 5 miles over the speed limit. Why? Because there are not enough policemen in the world to catch every driver who drives 5 miles or less over the speed limit. That doesn't mean that someone will NEVER get pulled over for that. It just means it's unlikely.
    No, I get my information from actually sitting in a courtroom and watching it all play out. After at least $200,000 was spent on legal fees and costs, I can say it is a sham.

    You should try losing a few hundred thousand in that courtroom circus and come back to speak so highly of it...if that is what you are doing.

    As for judges overturning a verdict...huh! Maybe in an idealistic world.

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Your problem, assuming for a second you aren't simply a troll, is that you seem to think that your personal experiences are the rule for everyone. They aren't. Do I know that I can drive 9 miles over the posted limit on the Interstate and likely at least 5 MPH over in most other places, sure I do. But I'm not about to advise someone here to do it because it would be illegal for them to do so.
    I am surprised that you are aware that you can even drive one mile over the limit.

    As for the troll comment, me disagreeing with you and others does not make me a troll. I speak from experience, which trumps any of your Googled, theoretical ideas.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    7,939

    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    First off, you do not know how most juries arrive at their decision, what evidence they use or what bias they have going in.
    I know from the trials I have tried (because I ask the jurors afterward how they reached their decision) and participated in as a juror myself that most jurors made a serious effort to get the right result. Sure, the lawyer's persuasion played a role, but the actual evidence and law mattered a lot, too. You seem to put too much emphasis on the lawyer's persuasion and discount the importance of evidence and law to a jury's decision. I suppose it's possible that the jurors in my area are simply smarter and not as easily snowed over by lawyers as the jurors are in your area. But I doubt you'd be easily snowed by a lawyer, would you? And I assume you'd try to reach the proper result, right? Are you saying you are that much smarter and more diligent than the other people in your community? If so, I feel bad for your community.

    If you feel that jurors are so easily swayed then perhaps you'd support eliminating juries altogether and have all cases decided by the judge.


    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    In our medical industry only accomplished doctors take on certain surgeries.
    Those doctors get so accomplished by having done those surgeries a first time someplace. And not all docs are as equally skilled even with experience doing it. From what I see it seems the public tends to think of all docs as all equally highly skilled, apparently you among them. But the reality is that, as with any profession, the range of skills varies. And like any profession, there are a few docs out there that are barely competent and who should be in a different profession. Same is true with lawyers.

    But you hate lawyers based, apparently, on the two trials you observed your friend's criminal trial and your own civil trial. So I don't expect to convince you otherwise even though your very limited experience in this is not reflective of the majority of trials.

    And as far as researching the backgrounds of doctors, there is actually not much more available to help the public pick their doctors than there is to pick their lawyers. I've faced a frustrating lack of real information when looking to pick my doctors.

    One of the big differences is that with lawyers at trial always one side will lose even when both attorneys are excellent. That's just the nature of trials. That makes a win loss record at trials a less meaningful statistic for a lawyer than would the statistics of what percentage of a surgeon's patients die on the operating table. The two professions are by their very nature, quite different. Surgeries, unlike trials, are not battles between two opposing sides. So trying to compare the two professions, as you seem to like to do, is like comparing apples to broccoli.

  6. #26
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    No, I get my information from actually sitting in a courtroom and watching it all play out. After at least $200,000 was spent on legal fees and costs, I can say it is a sham.

    You should try losing a few hundred thousand in that courtroom circus and come back to speak so highly of it...if that is what you are doing.

    As for judges overturning a verdict...huh! Maybe in an idealistic world.




    I am surprised that you are aware that you can even drive one mile over the limit.

    As for the troll comment, me disagreeing with you and others does not make me a troll. I speak from experience, which trumps any of your Googled, theoretical ideas.
    So you have been in court 2 or 3 times. That doesn't mean you have even the slightest overview of how the system works 99.999999999% of the time.

    You disagreeing with me doesn't make you a troll. You disagreeing with everyone even after you have been shown to be wrong makes you a troll.

  7. #27
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    Feb 2020
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    401

    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    So you have been in court 2 or 3 times. That doesn't mean you have even the slightest overview of how the system works 99.999999999% of the time.

    You disagreeing with me doesn't make you a troll. You disagreeing with everyone even after you have been shown to be wrong makes you a troll.
    I have been in court about thirteen times. As a plaintiff four times and as a defendant about nine times. How about you?

  8. #28
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    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    I have been in court about thirteen times. As a plaintiff four times and as a defendant about nine times. How about you?
    3 when I was one of the named parties. Somewhere close to 50 or 60 when I was a reporter.

    You really need to stop getting sued.

  9. #29
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    Feb 2020
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    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
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    3 when I was one of the named parties. Somewhere close to 50 or 60 when I was a reporter.

    You really need to stop getting sued.
    I have never been sued.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Ohio
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    387

    Default Re: Is It Legal to Print Fake Pretend Play Money if We Change a Lot of Features

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    I have never been sued.
    How were you a defendant when you were not sued?

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