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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
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    Paso Robles, California
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    529

    Default Re: 18 Inches from Curb Ticket

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Oh really? So if someone gets a parking citation in my car, that anonymous person will be notified and fined?
    The cite follows the car, not the driver. To be paid by the owner, not the driver.
    Try reading what I wrote. I said "cops don't cite cars they cite people". There is no mention of a "driver" or an "owner". Let me ask you, when is the last time you saw a car in court?
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  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: 18 Inches from Curb Ticket

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Because if the vehicle were parked, there is no driver to hold accountable. Ergo, the parking cite and the associated financial responsibility attaches to the vehicle. If you loan your car to someone who gets a parking ticket, your recourse is to sue or strong arm your friend to pay you for the parking cite ... or not.
    So, if the DMV holds the car reg 'hostage,' and the driver can simply walk away from the car, who/what is actually responsible for the cite? Seems the car is in a weird sort of way.

    I don't think your speeding cites are something to be proud of. It sort of says a lot about you that you seem to be proud of this little gem.
    I never said I was proud of them. It happened between the age of 16-23, forty years ago, when I drove fast cars and fast motorcycles. It was when courts were not interconnected and I could attend multiple traffic schools at a time. Besides, I mentioned it to validate my 10 over statement and that I've never been written for even 10 over. It had to be 11 over or over 80 on the freeway.

    As for thinking they don't cite for anything less than 10 MPH over, you are welcome to that opinion, but it is not true. More true on the freeways, perhaps, but not true on local roads or county highways. 10 MPH over is not much on a freeway with a 70 MPH speed limit, but 10 MPH over on a 25 MPH residential street can be considerable.

    As for the revenue thing, speed cites make almost no money for local jurisdictions and none for the CHP. So, it is a fallacy that the agency is rewarded for moving citations. Parking cites are where the money is, not movers. The moving cite you might pay $283 for could net the city about $7, but the $35 parking cite could net them $28. The moving cite is subject to overtime at court, the parking cite is not. The parking cite is a win for the city whereas the moving cite is a net loser when you take into account the officer's time and the fact that it can be challenged thus subjecting the agency to massive overtime that they'd need another 25+ cites to cover. So, if it were about money, officers would be in golf carts and carrying chalk sticks. **The only notable exception to his is red light camera tickets which ARE a money maker. But, few agencies operate these and some - like in Los Angeles - seem to rely on voluntary compliance without court action.**
    I've heard you say that cites are not money makers. But money going into the PD's pocket is not the only gain on a citation. Cites, like large revenue generation to corps, is not only beneficial to the dept that generates it. That money going 'upstairs' is a major incentive too.

    Quote Quoting Jim Kozlovich
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    Try reading what I wrote. I said "cops don't cite cars they cite people". There is no mention of a "driver" or an "owner". Let me ask you, when is the last time you saw a car in court?
    When is the last time you saw the DMV pursue an owner of a car over an unpaid parking ticket, rather than hold the registration hostage? The owner can walk away from 100 parking citations and not pay a dime. So just how responsible is he?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: 18 Inches from Curb Ticket

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    So, if the DMV holds the car reg 'hostage,' and the driver can simply walk away from the car, who/what is actually responsible for the cite? Seems the car is in a weird sort of way.
    In theory, the registered owner of the vehicle can be sent to collections. In practice, the city tends to write off the loss. Not every city works with collections agencies to collect on delinquent parking cites when the owner abandons the vehicle. But, if salvaged, the lien would have to be satisfied for a new owner.

    I never said I was proud of them. It happened between the age of 16-23, forty years ago, when I drove fast cars and fast motorcycles. It was when courts were not interconnected and I could attend multiple traffic schools at a time. Besides, I mentioned it to validate my 10 over statement and that I've never been written for even 10 over. It had to be 11 over or over 80 on the freeway.
    Ah, okay. Well, in that age range I had only one speed cite and two equipment cites. My last citation was at age 23. But, I didn't have access to fast cars or motorcycles. My one speed cite was for doing 63 in a 55 on Hwy. 101 in Sonoma County in 1984.

    I've heard you say that cites are not money makers. But money going into the PD's pocket is not the only gain on a citation. Cites, like large revenue generation to corps, is not only beneficial to the dept that generates it. That money going 'upstairs' is a major incentive too.
    The primary benefactor of traffic citation funds are the state and the courts. We don't write cites for money. I have never in my 30 years heard administration tell us to go out and write cites to fund the courts. These days, aside from traffic details and the CHP, few municipal officers - and fewer deputies - write moving citations. Why? Because with fewer resources, there is less discretionary time to go out and write citations. While it is true that someone makes money off of traffic cites, officers do not write citations to make someone else money, and agencies do not tell their people to do so, either. The only times I have heard of patrol officers being told to write moving cites is as a result of complaints of particular problems in an an area, or in an effort to combat collisions in an area. It's also why you might get officers being anal about everything from parking to just 3 MPH over the speed limit - targeted enforcement.

    In short, moving violations are not a money maker for the agencies that write them, so there is no financial motive there.

    When is the last time you saw the DMV pursue an owner of a car over an unpaid parking ticket, rather than hold the registration hostage? The owner can walk away from 100 parking citations and not pay a dime. So just how responsible is he?
    The DMV? Never. It's not their issue. They will only hold the registration and title hostage. The city or the agency holding the parking tickets, about 50% of the time. As I mentioned, not every city has a deal with a collections agency so the only means they have to collect is through the lien and hold on registration.

    And, if someone has a hundred parking tickets, the vehicle should have been impounded about 94 tickets ago. That's the agency's bad if they let it go that long.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    402

    Default Re: 18 Inches from Curb Ticket

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    In theory, the registered owner of the vehicle can be sent to collections. In practice, the city tends to write off the loss. Not every city works with collections agencies to collect on delinquent parking cites when the owner abandons the vehicle. But, if salvaged, the lien would have to be satisfied for a new owner.

    Ah, okay. Well, in that age range I had only one speed cite and two equipment cites. My last citation was at age 23. But, I didn't have access to fast cars or motorcycles. My one speed cite was for doing 63 in a 55 on Hwy. 101 in Sonoma County in 1984.

    The primary benefactor of traffic citation funds are the state and the courts. We don't write cites for money. I have never in my 30 years heard administration tell us to go out and write cites to fund the courts. These days, aside from traffic details and the CHP, few municipal officers - and fewer deputies - write moving citations. Why? Because with fewer resources, there is less discretionary time to go out and write citations. While it is true that someone makes money off of traffic cites, officers do not write citations to make someone else money, and agencies do not tell their people to do so, either. The only times I have heard of patrol officers being told to write moving cites is as a result of complaints of particular problems in an an area, or in an effort to combat collisions in an area. It's also why you might get officers being anal about everything from parking to just 3 MPH over the speed limit - targeted enforcement.

    In short, moving violations are not a money maker for the agencies that write them, so there is no financial motive there.

    The DMV? Never. It's not their issue. They will only hold the registration and title hostage. The city or the agency holding the parking tickets, about 50% of the time. As I mentioned, not every city has a deal with a collections agency so the only means they have to collect is through the lien and hold on registration.

    And, if someone has a hundred parking tickets, the vehicle should have been impounded about 94 tickets ago. That's the agency's bad if they let it go that long.
    Carl, I hope you know that I am talking tongue-in-cheek when I say the car is responsible.

    Though you say citations are not incentivized, I beg to differ. A motor cop's main function is traffic enforcement. Actually, all I see them do is write citations, so how could they not be encouraged to write more tickets if they were only giving verbal warnings? How could their cite-count not be acknowledged and evaluated?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
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    20,594

    Default Re: 18 Inches from Curb Ticket

    Quote Quoting Harold99
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    Carl, I hope you know that I am talking tongue-in-cheek when I say the car is responsible.
    Yes, I do. .

    Though you say citations are not incentivized, I beg to differ. A motor cop's main function is traffic enforcement. Actually, all I see them do is write citations, so how could they not be encouraged to write more tickets if they were only giving verbal warnings? How could their cite-count not be acknowledged and evaluated?
    A motor cop's function is traffic enforcement. They are not patrol officers, their primary function is traffic enforcement. Though, traffic units are getting gutted due to staffing crises statewide, so they are fewer and fewer. They are evaluated on their job performance much as drug officers might be evaluated on drug seizures, or gang officers evaluated on gang interviews.

    But, yes, traffic officers are evaluated on their job performance. This can include cites, warnings, collision reports, etc. But, quotas - even variable number 'X' - are specifically prohibited by law and policy. The nebulous term "goals" or even "team objectives" and similar phrasings are often veiled attempts to get around a quota, but still are. But, yes, they are expected to conduct stops that apply to problem areas, address PCFs (primary Collision Factors) in targeted areas and generally show they aren't hanging at Starbucks for 10-12 hours. They are evaluated on their core job performance much the same as every other officer might also be evaluated.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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