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  1. #11
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    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    Maybe most contractors would not have agreed to pay for it. Maybe it would not be logical under the circumstances for the contractor to do so (though I can see circumstances where it would make sense). But according to the OP, the siding contractor did in fact agree to pay for it. Contracts are about what the parties agreed to do. So as I see, the siding contractor is the one that pays because he agreed to that. Should it go to court (probably small claims court) if the OP could convince the judge that the siding contractor committed to pay for he would likely win on that (subject to my point in the next paragraph). No way to tell, though, how that would go as a lot would depend on how persuasive each party is in convincing the judge as to what the conversation was. That's the downside of failing to get it in writing. Oral agreements are harder to prove.

    If there was a written contract between the parties and this was an oral modification to that written contract then coral101 has the additional problem that the general rule is that a written contract cannot be modified orally; modifications to written contracts generally also need to be in writing. We don't know if there was a written contract that covered this and if there was, exactly what it said, and how this conversation related to that contract. That would be important to know.

    But just based on what we do know I would not automatically say that coral101 is the one who must pay as you and Jack have done.
    What I was trying to make coral101 understand was what was normal and standard in the construction industry. I do not believe that any contractor would knowingly agree to pay for anything that could not be passed on to the client as part of the costs of the job. It is my belief that coral101 misunderstood what the contractor agreed to do. I am sure that the contractor agreed to share the dumpster that was already going to be there. What I can almost guarantee that he did NOT agree to do was to absorb any of the cost of it that could not be passed on to coral101.

    I can see him agreeing NOT to include the cost of a dumpster into his bill since he could share a dumpster that was already being paid for by the client via the remodeling contractor. I am very familiar with construction/contractor billing and I cannot imagine any contractor agreeing to what coral101 believes that the siding contractor agreed to. Therefore I can see little chance that coral101 could convince a judge that such an oral agreement was entered into.

    I also know what dumpsters cost, and therefore know that it would be cost prohibitive to involve an attorney.

  2. #12
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    Oct 2014
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    7,831

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I am very familiar with construction/contractor billing and I cannot imagine any contractor agreeing to what coral101 believes that the siding contractor agreed to. Therefore I can see little chance that coral101 could convince a judge that such an oral agreement was entered into.
    Again, just because most contractors wouldn't do it doesn't mean that this contractor didn't agree to that. Get out of the mindset that just because most people act one way that all therefore all necessarily do that. Some people don't do what most others do, after all. Without knowing what evidence each side would present if it went to court it's impossible to really even guess what a judge might be convinced as to what the deal was. You didn't hear the conversation and neither did I, so neither of us is in a good position to say what that contractor agreed to do.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
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    224

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Anything can be agreed to on a job-site...it being oral or written. If the remodeling contractor and the OP both heard the siding contractor agree to pay for his use of the dumpster, then that is what a bond company will believe too.

  4. #14
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    Jan 2019
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    8

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    What I was trying to make coral101 understand was what was normal and standard in the construction industry. I do not believe that any contractor would knowingly agree to pay for anything that could not be passed on to the client as part of the costs of the job. It is my belief that coral101 misunderstood what the contractor agreed to do. I am sure that the contractor agreed to share the dumpster that was already going to be there. What I can almost guarantee that he did NOT agree to do was to absorb any of the cost of it that could not be passed on to coral101.

    I can see him agreeing NOT to include the cost of a dumpster into his bill since he could share a dumpster that was already being paid for by the client via the remodeling contractor. I am very familiar with construction/contractor billing and I cannot imagine any contractor agreeing to what coral101 believes that the siding contractor agreed to. Therefore I can see little chance that coral101 could convince a judge that such an oral agreement was entered into.

    I also know what dumpsters cost, and therefore know that it would be cost prohibitive to involve an attorney.
    Hello, thank you for your help. I just wanted to share more of the details (I hope it helps). In the original contract with the siding contractor, there was a payment made that would reimburse him for any materials, etc needed for the construction. In the contract, there was also a clause stated that he would be responsible for providing the dumpster for the work. I believe that the total sum that we paid him would have reimbursed his payments for materials, dumpsters, etc.

    Also, while I'll be honest that I am not as familiar with the construction industry as you, per our phone conversations, it seemed to me as if he acknowledged that he would pay for the dumpster. Before we gave the remodeling contractor his final payment, he told us that earlier that week, he had spoken to the siding contractor (in person) and came to an agreement with him that the dumpster payment will be settled between them two.

    It seems like to me in this case I will be double-paying for the dumpster fee. I had already paid the siding contractor a sum for any reimbursements for materials etc, and now I'm being asked by the remodeling constructor to pay that fee again.

    Hopefully that makes sense, and I hope to hear your thoughts! Thanks. Also, if it matters, the dumpster fee is around 700 dollars.

  5. #15
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    Oct 2006
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    16,080

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting coral101
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    Hello, thank you for your help. I just wanted to share more of the details (I hope it helps). In the original contract with the siding contractor, there was a payment made that would reimburse him for any materials, etc needed for the construction. In the contract, there was also a clause stated that he would be responsible for providing the dumpster for the work. I believe that the total sum that we paid him would have reimbursed his payments for materials, dumpsters, etc.

    Also, while I'll be honest that I am not as familiar with the construction industry as you, per our phone conversations, it seemed to me as if he acknowledged that he would pay for the dumpster. Before we gave the remodeling contractor his final payment, he told us that earlier that week, he had spoken to the siding contractor (in person) and came to an agreement with him that the dumpster payment will be settled between them two.

    It seems like to me in this case I will be double-paying for the dumpster fee. I had already paid the siding contractor a sum for any reimbursements for materials etc, and now I'm being asked by the remodeling constructor to pay that fee again.

    Hopefully that makes sense, and I hope to hear your thoughts! Thanks. Also, if it matters, the dumpster fee is around 700 dollars.
    If indeed the price of the dumpster was built into your original quote from the remodeling contractor, and you have paid that original quote in full, then I agree with you that it would be double dipping for the remodeling contractor to ask you for payment again as you would have already paid for the dumpster in full.

    Make that argument to the remodeling contractor. Leave the siding contractor out of it.

  6. #16
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    Jan 2019
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    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    If indeed the price of the dumpster was built into your original quote from the remodeling contractor, and you have paid that original quote in full, then I agree with you that it would be double dipping for the remodeling contractor to ask you for payment again as you would have already paid for the dumpster in full.

    Make that argument to the remodeling contractor. Leave the siding contractor out of it.
    Hello, sorry if it seems naive, but I'm a little confused as to why the siding contractor should be left out of it. We paid for the price of the dumpster in the initial quote with the remodeling contractor for our part. We also paid the siding contractor the price of the dumpster in his quote. However, our contract with the remodeling contractor did not include the fees associated with siding contractor's dumpster use. Doesn't it make more sense that the siding contractor needs to pay the resulting fee to the remodeling contractor?

    If this scenario did not play out the way it did, and the siding contractor did not borrow the dumpster from the remodeling contractor, he would have had to pay for a dumpster himself from another party. He would've then gotten this fee "back" in his final payment which was included the originally agreed upon estimate/quote. The only thing that changed in this situation was that instead of having to look and pay for a dumpster from another party, he borrowed the dumpster from the remodeling contractor. Wouldn't it make the most sense for the siding contractor to therefore pay the remodeling contractor for dumpster use?

    Again, sorry if this seems naive, and thank you so much again for the help.

    Edit: I just want to further clarify the dumpster fee situation with numbers. Note that I'm making the numbers up, but the situation can still apply.

    In the initial quote, we agreed to pay the remodeling contractor a total of $5000 for materials for our construction work with him (including dumpster fees). At the end of the construction process, the dumpster fee totaled to say 1750 dollars total - $350 for each load for a total of 5 loads. The remodeling contractor informed that the work he did for our project totaled to only 3 loads, and the siding guy used a total of 2 loads. Since the contract between me and the remodeling contractor only included the fees for our project, the remodeling contractor asked for a separate payment for the other two loads.

    Doesn't it make most sense for the siding contractor to be responsible for this payment since it was originally agreed upon in the contract that these fees would be built into his quote?

  7. #17
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    Nov 2013
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    6,804

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    I agree with you that the siding contractor owes the remodeling contractor for two loads. But it is not for the remodeling contractor to go after the money because I doubt there is any contract between the two contractors. You contracted with both to only have one dumpster. So you have to pay the remodeling contractor or get the siding contractor to pay for the two loads.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting coral101
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    Hello, sorry if it seems naive, but I'm a little confused as to why the siding contractor should be left out of it. We paid for the price of the dumpster in the initial quote with the remodeling contractor for our part. We also paid the siding contractor the price of the dumpster in his quote. However, our contract with the remodeling contractor did not include the fees associated with siding contractor's dumpster use. Doesn't it make more sense that the siding contractor needs to pay the resulting fee to the remodeling contractor?

    If this scenario did not play out the way it did, and the siding contractor did not borrow the dumpster from the remodeling contractor, he would have had to pay for a dumpster himself from another party. He would've then gotten this fee "back" in his final payment which was included the originally agreed upon estimate/quote. The only thing that changed in this situation was that instead of having to look and pay for a dumpster from another party, he borrowed the dumpster from the remodeling contractor. Wouldn't it make the most sense for the siding contractor to therefore pay the remodeling contractor for dumpster use?

    Again, sorry if this seems naive, and thank you so much again for the help.

    Edit: I just want to further clarify the dumpster fee situation with numbers. Note that I'm making the numbers up, but the situation can still apply.

    In the initial quote, we agreed to pay the remodeling contractor a total of $5000 for materials for our construction work with him (including dumpster fees). At the end of the construction process, the dumpster fee totaled to say 1750 dollars total - $350 for each load for a total of 5 loads. The remodeling contractor informed that the work he did for our project totaled to only 3 loads, and the siding guy used a total of 2 loads. Since the contract between me and the remodeling contractor only included the fees for our project, the remodeling contractor asked for a separate payment for the other two loads.

    Doesn't it make most sense for the siding contractor to be responsible for this payment since it was originally agreed upon in the contract that these fees would be built into his quote?
    If the fees for the dumpster were built into the siding contractor's quote, then yes, the siding contractor should pay them. In other words, if you have already paid for 100% of the dumpster via the quotes of each contractor, then you should not have to pay again. However, your initial explanation of the situation seemed to contradict that.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
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    8

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    If the fees for the dumpster were built into the siding contractor's quote, then yes, the siding contractor should pay them. In other words, if you have already paid for 100% of the dumpster via the quotes of each contractor, then you should not have to pay again. However, your initial explanation of the situation seemed to contradict that.
    Would you suggest then that the two contractors contact each other directly, or do we need to step in and pay the remodeling contractor the 700, then ask for the siding contractor to pay us 700.

  10. #20
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Who is Responsible for the Payment

    First ask the siding contractor to refund to you the $700 (tell him that you had to pay the $700) and then pay the remodeling contractor. The two contractors have no obligation to work it out and you will not know what the outcome might be even if the said they would work it out.

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