Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    29

    Question Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    I am having a difficult time finding information about this in California's CVC.

    Although I have only received a warning and not an actual citation, I am looking for clarity on this. Multiple law enforcement officers have admonished me for parking in a turnout on the side of a two lane state highway or other rural roadway. I asked one for clarification on this and was told the car could park in a turnout, but had to be more than a given amount of feet from the white line which marks the edge of the lane. This officer did not know what the amount of feet was - if it was 5 feet, 10 feet, 20 feet or something else. My understanding of this was if there is a turnout which is wider than a typical shoulder and there is not a no parking or no stopping sign posted - within a given amount of distance (see first question below) - then it is perfectly legal to park there. Is someone here able to clarify this?

    Also:
    1) If a no parking sign is posted, how far in front of and how far behind is it illegal to park? Is this distance different for a no parking sign than for a no stopping sign?

    2) What exactly is the difference between 'no stopping' and 'no parking'. Obviously if one is stopped with the motor running and sitting in the driver's seat, he/she would be in violation of a 'no stopping' sign. This suggests the motorist wouldn't be in violation of a 'no parking' sign. But to what degree would the motorist have to shut down his/her vehicle and/or get out of the vehicle for them to be in violation of a 'no parking' sign?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,602

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    The only law that would remotely apply here is that you can't park on the highway where it impedes traffic. That's a rather subjective thing, but to me if you are clear of the thru lane and there's no other vehicle in the turnout, you're not obstructing anything. There certainly is no "feet from the white line" law. It's subjective.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    17,793

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    What exactly is the difference between 'no stopping' and 'no parking'
    California Vehicle Code Division 1 - Words and Phrases Defined:

    463. “Park or parking” shall mean the standing of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, otherwise than temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading merchandise or passengers.

    587. “Stop or stopping” when prohibited shall mean any cessation of movement of a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or official traffic control device or signal.
    Clears it up for me.

    If a no parking sign is posted, how far in front of and how far behind is it illegal to park?
    Depends on how the sign is worded. If it just says "No Parking" common sense tells me from corner to corner and I wouldn't park. Others may have a different interpretation and get the opportunity to explain their interpretation in court.

    Multiple law enforcement officers have admonished me for parking in a turnout on the side of a two lane state highway or other rural roadway.
    Then stop doing it.

    "My understanding"
    = "I don't know."

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    California Vehicle Code Division 1 - Words and Phrases Defined:
    Clears it up for me.
    Thanks for clarifying the difference between 'no parking' and 'no stopping'.

    'Depends on how the sign is worded. If it just says "No Parking" common sense tells me from corner to corner and I wouldn't park. Others may have a different interpretation and get the opportunity to explain their interpretation in court.'
    The idea is to avoid at minimum even having to go to court. As having to go to court is a 'penalty' - even if found not guilty.
    I'm guessing the distance must be listed somewhere.

    Then stop doing it.
    In each case, there was nothing to indicate where I was parking was illegal. E.g. Not a close no parking or no stopping sign; and a very wide turnout.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    17,793

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    Quote Quoting Lizard
    View Post

    In each case, there was nothing to indicate where I was parking was illegal. E.g. Not a close no parking or no stopping sign; and a very wide turnout.
    Please provide an aerial view of the location on google maps. Best way to get a helpful comment.

    Might also explain why you need to park there.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    Are you actually PARKING there? Or, are you STOPPED there? In other words, are you pulling over in the turnout and leaving your car to hike, walk, or otherwise disappear from the vehicle?

    Is this turnout on a numbered state or US freeway?

    I agree with adjusterjack - a Google map link to the location might help.

    In general, a "turnout" is to be used only to allow vehicles to pass. But, also consider this, the turnout is part of the "highway" and, if when you park and leave your vehicle, it obstructs that turnout in any way or presents an articulable hazard (which can be subjective), it could be towed pursuant to CVC 22651(b).
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    In general, a "turnout" is to be used only to allow vehicles to pass.
    I have never heard that before. Passing signs are used all down the highway. I never seen a sign indicating a turn-out is to allow for passing. Have you? Is what you are saying in the CVC? And, if there are signs that say "slower traffic use turnouts," (likely on a steep incline) does the absence of that sign mean all turnouts are for passing as well?

    But, also consider this, the turnout is part of the "highway" and, if when you park and leave your vehicle, it obstructs that turnout in any way or presents an articulable hazard (which can be subjective), it could be towed pursuant to CVC 22651(b).
    Legal stopping and parking areas, which can be turnouts, are also part of the highway. Since turnouts do not have lanes or marked parking stalls, and a car in a turnout is out of lanes of through traffic, how can he be obstructing traffic? It would be like stopping in an open field and being charged with blocking traffic.

    To be specific and not "general," please tell what the purpose and prohibitions are of the turnouts on Hwy 14 between Santa Clarita and Lancaster, CA? I have driven that Hwy my whole life and witnessed motorists use those turnouts for whatever they wish...park and hike, stretch their legs, eat lunch, urinate, etc, and I have never seen a CHP ever interact with them. Heck, I even see big rig truckers sleeping in trun-outs all the way up the 395 to Mammoth and Tahoe.

    You seem to be saying that there is no difference between stopping or parking in the emergency lane and stopping or parking in a turnout, when in my experience, there is.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,602

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    I have never heard that before. Passing signs are used all down the highway. I never seen a sign indicating a turn-out is to allow for passing. Have you? Is what you are saying in the CVC? And, if there are signs that say "slower traffic use turnouts," (likely on a steep incline) does the absence of that sign mean all turnouts are for passing as well?
    What else would they be for? Turnouts are specifically designated in the vehicle code for slower traffic to pull off and allow passing. In fact, I believe 21656VC may be the only the only place in the code they're mentioned.

    Legal stopping and parking areas, which can be turnouts, are also part of the highway. Since turnouts do not have lanes or marked parking stalls, and a car in a turnout is out of lanes of through traffic, how can he be obstructing traffic? It would be like stopping in an open field and being charged with blocking traffic.
    If it blocks a vehicle from making use of the turnout, one could say that it is. Unlike your hypothetical field, the turnout is part of the highway by official definition.

    Still it's a rather subjective stretch to claim that an attended car in an otherwise empty turnout that is well clear of traffic either on the main roadway or trying to exit the main roadway to enter the turn out is impeding traffic.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    Quote Quoting Harold99
    View Post
    I have never heard that before. Passing signs are used all down the highway. I never seen a sign indicating a turn-out is to allow for passing. Have you? Is what you are saying in the CVC? And, if there are signs that say "slower traffic use turnouts," (likely on a steep incline) does the absence of that sign mean all turnouts are for passing as well?
    Turnouts are mentioned in only one section of the CVC:

    21656.
    On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, any vehicle proceeding upon the highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the vehicles following it to proceed.


    You see these a lot on mountain and country roads out here (like where I live).

    Legal stopping and parking areas, which can be turnouts, are also part of the highway. Since turnouts do not have lanes or marked parking stalls, and a car in a turnout is out of lanes of through traffic, how can he be obstructing traffic? It would be like stopping in an open field and being charged with blocking traffic.
    If it is not a marked "turnout" then it is a shoulder or simply off the roadway. Depending upon the position of the vehicle, stopping or parking off to the side MAY violate one or more sections of the CVC depending upon the facts and the details.

    To be specific and not "general," please tell what the purpose and prohibitions are of the turnouts on Hwy 14 between Santa Clarita and Lancaster, CA? I have driven that Hwy my whole life and witnessed motorists use those turnouts for whatever they wish...park and hike, stretch their legs, eat lunch, urinate, etc, and I have never seen a CHP ever interact with them. Heck, I even see big rig truckers sleeping in trun-outs all the way up the 395 to Mammoth and Tahoe.
    Don't know. Are they marked turnouts? Are people stopped in such a way as to obstruct vehicles intending to use them for their intended purpose of letting traffic pass? If those vehicles are parked and obstructing traffic on the highway utilizing the turnout, then such parking or stopping and standing may be unlawful.

    You seem to be saying that there is no difference between stopping or parking in the emergency lane and stopping or parking in a turnout, when in my experience, there is.
    Not saying that at all. It comes down to whether the vehicle is obstructing traffic in one way or another. And, keep in mind that the obstruction does not mean that it's hanging over the road. VC 22651(b) is open to some level of interpretation as to what constitutes a hazard.

    22651(b)
    If a vehicle is parked or left standing upon a highway in a position so as to obstruct the normal movement of traffic or in a condition so as to create a hazard to other traffic upon the highway.


    It can be obstructing traffic by jutting into the roadway, or providing a visibility obstruction to oncoming traffic around a mountain turn, or some other hazard that does not leap to my mind at the moment.

    A "turnout" is not specifically defined under the CVC and is only mentioned at all in 21656 cited above. Whether any action can be taken against a vehicle or operator of a vehicle stopped or parked in such a locale depends on other facts and not just their presence in such a lane.

    EDIT: And, yes, the "turnout" IS part of the "highway" as defined under the CVC.

    360
    “Highway” is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Paso Robles, California
    Posts
    524

    Default Re: Parking in Turnouts on Two Lane Roads

    I need clarification. For purposes of this discussion, which of these are you people considering a "Turnout"?
    CA-41 or CA-46
    *****
    I may not always be right, but I am never wrong.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Determination of Fault: Parking Lot Accident With a Car Reversing Down a One-Way Lane
    By jetgel in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-14-2014, 10:45 AM
  2. Traffic Lane Violations: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings
    By DNG in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 09-17-2013, 12:00 AM
  3. Determination of Fault: Parking Lot Accident - Thoroughfare vs Feeder Lane
    By ConcernedM in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-22-2013, 07:07 PM
  4. Other Violations: Passing on Left Through Parking Lane
    By IWasConfused in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-02-2013, 07:24 PM
  5. Parking Violations: Parking in a No Parking Fire Lane
    By westgl in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-08-2009, 08:56 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources