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  1. #41
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting cbg
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    While it is true that a password can be reset easily in many cases, the passwords belong to the business, not to the OP.
    Then the business should have them as SOP in the course of business or pay to have them reset. I don't think OP said anything about a contract that would obligate him to assist after being terminated.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    Any good IT professional could reset or bypass a computer workstation password or passwords to Excel, Word, or Outlook and many other programs . If you are speaking about bank account passwords that is a different story.

    Every inch you give will bit you in the ass by at least a foot. Tell her to put up or shut up. Let her sue you and see where that gets her. You are no longer an employee. You owe her no duty to help her in the business. And it will have no impact on your final settlement.
    Bud, I 100% disagree with you in this instance. Here we have a marital asset that he hopes to profit from in the future, via the divorce. Causing problems for the asset, particularly by withholding something as trivial as a computer password, will NOT endear him to the judge that will hear his divorce case.

    If he were an ordinary employee who was fired from a job I am still not sure that I would agree with you, but that would definitely be a different scenario from what the OP is dealing with.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Bud, I 100% disagree with you in this instance. Here we have a marital asset that he hopes to profit from in the future, via the divorce. Causing problems for the asset, particularly by withholding something as trivial as a computer password, will NOT endear him to the judge that will hear his divorce case.

    If he were an ordinary employee who was fired from a job I am still not sure that I would agree with you, but that would definitely be a different scenario from what the OP is dealing with.
    Stepping out of labor law for a second, would the judge me more upset about an unshared password or by her abusing her unilateral control over my income and employment when I am the PPR raising our children? She is exploiting the COVID loophole to appear as though she was forced to violate marital status quo and therefore is not obligated to pay alimony under those circumstances. However, we have a long history of documented emails where she was already trying very hard to encourage me to quit on my own (absolving her of alimony claims) by changing my duties to include personal favors and reducing my pay 20% when our business was booming and she gave herself a raise. Personally, I find messing around with the income of your kids' primary caretaker more offensive than a password thing especially since I also think once you fire a person, you cut off your relationship completely and you're responsible yourself for consequences of your own actions. Also, if I were an employer, I would offer some kind of severance package to encourage good will and transition assistance because that's what I got at my last job and I did help out the transition. So I'm curious about your point of view if taking the divorce side out of it.

    For an asset that will be 100% hers by the end of things, morally she should give back at least all the money invested to really cut out my family completely and it be completely hers. Of the invested amount, we're already expecting to lose at least half of it in an endless argument over gift vs. loan. She is now trying to weasel out on the other half as well thereby stealing 100% of the large grand sum my family had put into getting our mom and pop shop up and still end up keeping the business all to herself at the end. So in the grand scheme of things, I am not profiting from the asset but instead mitigating loss so I don't imagine a judge would hold this "smooth transition" thing against me, especially since if she really digs back in her emails and texts, she already has everything she's asking me for but is too lazy to look and would rather bully me, scapegoat me, and intimidate me into remaining a subservient abuse victim to her. There's certainly no smooth transition for me suddenly being unemployed, financially insecure, and job hunting and e-learning young kids through a quarantine!

    But again, since she is attempting to claim this as unrelated and independent to Marital Status Quo, her strategy, not mine, then we are approaching this issue divorce-free making me an ordinary employee. In that scenario, why couldn't I just block communications from the employer who just unilaterally ended their relationship with me?

  4. #44
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    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Y'know, I would really love to hear her side of the story.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    455

    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    OP, it appears that what you REALLY want is for someone to agree with you, regardless of how wrong you are.

    So here goes: You're right, she's wrong, and the judge is going to sentence her to a lifetime of listening to nothing but yodeling podcasts.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting Shadowbunny
    View Post
    OP, it appears that what you REALLY want is for someone to agree with you, regardless of how wrong you are.
    Not true... I seek different legal perspectives so I'm not surprised when it all goes down, but I was previously and fairly criticized for not providing enough information to obtain informed advice and suggestions so I'm trying to be more forthcoming, but sorry if that seems like a one-sided sob story where I'm only seeking affirmation. If I'm wrong, I'd like to know why so I can handle the situation appropriately but so far I've heard stuff like we're both wrong but with little explanation. I do not know enough to decide on my own if I'm legally wrong or not, and so winning a popularity vote on these forums will not help me at all in a court of law, ethics, and evidence.

    Here's the answers I got so far to my current inquiry:

    1. Divorce court will not look favorably upon my actions. I don't disagree but there are mitigating circumstances which will be addressed in actual divorce court. I have to ask this just in terms of labor law first. Cross that other bridge when I get to it.

    2. You were fired and have no obligations anymore strictly speaking from a business sense. That's what I thought but...

    3. I don't agree with the last person. Okay, so why not? I need to know the legal fine print in this kind of case that I might not be aware of.

    4. Passwords belong to a company. This also means the company has full control over administering, altering, and resetting passwords, right? I hear that more in terms of once I leave the company, I'm locked out of the all the systems which is perfectly reasonable because they own the systems and in that case, also own control over the passwords like you said, but it's still unclear why that has anything to do with me anymore after I've been ejected from the company.

    5. You're both wrong. That's probably true in any disagreement that gets personal, but please elaborate why you think so in this case so that I can reflect on my own wavering stance on the matter.

    6. Her side of the story. Yeah that's fair. Re-reading some explanations, I may have interpreted some of the reasons behind her actions for her, but the actions themselves and the timeline are still objective facts. Most if not all are documented in some form or another. Whether or not the consequences of such actions were intentional is up to interpretation. I feel I have enough presentable evidence to show a pattern of behavior that would make these consequences appear intended, but now we're re-entering subjective territory and falls back into the divorce court realm so to avoid any further dismissal of my inquiries as simply seeking affirmation, I'll curtail the dramatic language stick to the plain facts as much as possible.

    The best advice I heard offline so far is to aggressively move ahead with the divorce. This labor law matter is only coming up now because we're both waiting for the lawyers to work on something and she's probably bored. Once we accelerate the divorce, this labor matter will probably drop off or get resolved as part of the settlement and become moot.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    16,242

    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting AsAmDivorce20
    View Post
    Stepping out of labor law for a second, would the judge me more upset about an unshared password or by her abusing her unilateral control over my income and employment when I am the PPR raising our children? She is exploiting the COVID loophole to appear as though she was forced to violate marital status quo and therefore is not obligated to pay alimony under those circumstances. However, we have a long history of documented emails where she was already trying very hard to encourage me to quit on my own (absolving her of alimony claims) by changing my duties to include personal favors and reducing my pay 20% when our business was booming and she gave herself a raise. Personally, I find messing around with the income of your kids' primary caretaker more offensive than a password thing especially since I also think once you fire a person, you cut off your relationship completely and you're responsible yourself for consequences of your own actions. Also, if I were an employer, I would offer some kind of severance package to encourage good will and transition assistance because that's what I got at my last job and I did help out the transition. So I'm curious about your point of view if taking the divorce side out of it.

    For an asset that will be 100% hers by the end of things, morally she should give back at least all the money invested to really cut out my family completely and it be completely hers. Of the invested amount, we're already expecting to lose at least half of it in an endless argument over gift vs. loan. She is now trying to weasel out on the other half as well thereby stealing 100% of the large grand sum my family had put into getting our mom and pop shop up and still end up keeping the business all to herself at the end. So in the grand scheme of things, I am not profiting from the asset but instead mitigating loss so I don't imagine a judge would hold this "smooth transition" thing against me, especially since if she really digs back in her emails and texts, she already has everything she's asking me for but is too lazy to look and would rather bully me, scapegoat me, and intimidate me into remaining a subservient abuse victim to her. There's certainly no smooth transition for me suddenly being unemployed, financially insecure, and job hunting and e-learning young kids through a quarantine!

    But again, since she is attempting to claim this as unrelated and independent to Marital Status Quo, her strategy, not mine, then we are approaching this issue divorce-free making me an ordinary employee. In that scenario, why couldn't I just block communications from the employer who just unilaterally ended their relationship with me?
    Here is the thing...If your behavior is above reproach then she is absolutely going to look like the bad guy to the judge. However, if you do petty things that can hurt the business, like withholding passwords, then that makes you look like the bad guy as well, and dilutes the strength of your position.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    ^^^^Like button

  9. #49
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Bud, I 100% disagree with you in this instance. Here we have a marital asset that he hopes to profit from in the future, via the divorce. Causing problems for the asset, particularly by withholding something as trivial as a computer password, will NOT endear him to the judge that will hear his divorce case.

    If he were an ordinary employee who was fired from a job I am still not sure that I would agree with you, but that would definitely be a different scenario from what the OP is dealing with.
    NJ is an equitable distribution state and that distribution is controlled by statute and fact. So a judge adjudicating the divorce is bound by the facts and the statute. If a judge were to favor one party over the other that was outside of the law or facts, the settlement could be challenged on appeal.

    2A:34-23.1 Equitable distribution criteria.

    4.In making an equitable distribution of property, the court shall consider, but not be limited to, the following factors:

    a.The duration of the marriage or civil union;

    b.The age and physical and emotional health of the parties;

    c.The income or property brought to the marriage or civil union by each party;

    d.The standard of living established during the marriage or civil union;

    e.Any written agreement made by the parties before or during the marriage or civil union concerning an arrangement of property distribution;

    f.The economic circumstances of each party at the time the division of property becomes effective;

    g.The income and earning capacity of each party, including educational background, training, employment skills, work experience, length of absence from the job market, custodial responsibilities for children, and the time and expense necessary to acquire sufficient education or training to enable the party to become self-supporting at a standard of living reasonably comparable to that enjoyed during the marriage or civil union;

    h.The contribution by each party to the education, training or earning power of the other;

    i.The contribution of each party to the acquisition, dissipation, preservation, depreciation or appreciation in the amount or value of the marital property, or the property acquired during the civil union as well as the contribution of a party as a homemaker;

    j.The tax consequences of the proposed distribution to each party;

    k.The present value of the property;

    l.The need of a parent who has physical custody of a child to own or occupy the marital residence or residence shared by the partners in a civil union couple and to use or own the household effects;

    m.The debts and liabilities of the parties;

    n.The need for creation, now or in the future, of a trust fund to secure reasonably foreseeable medical or educational costs for a spouse, partner in a civil union couple or children;

    o.The extent to which a party deferred achieving their career goals; and

    p.Any other factors which the court may deem relevant.

    In every case, except cases where the court does not make an award concerning the equitable distribution of property pursuant to subsection h. of N.J.S.2A:34-23, the court shall make specific findings of fact on the evidence relevant to all issues pertaining to asset eligibility or ineligibility, asset valuation, and equitable distribution, including specifically, but not limited to, the factors set forth in this section.

    It shall be a rebuttable presumption that each party made a substantial financial or nonfinancial contribution to the acquisition of income and property while the party was married.

    L.1988, c.153, s.4; amended 1997, c.407; 2006, c.103, s.80; 2009, c.43, s.2.
    Quote Quoting AsAmDivorce20
    View Post
    Stepping out of labor law for a second, would the judge me more upset about an unshared password or by her abusing her unilateral control over my income and employment when I am the PPR raising our children? She is exploiting the COVID loophole to appear as though she was forced to violate marital status quo and therefore is not obligated to pay alimony under those circumstances. However, we have a long history of documented emails where she was already trying very hard to encourage me to quit on my own (absolving her of alimony claims) by changing my duties to include personal favors and reducing my pay 20% when our business was booming and she gave herself a raise. Personally, I find messing around with the income of your kids' primary caretaker more offensive than a password thing especially since I also think once you fire a person, you cut off your relationship completely and you're responsible yourself for consequences of your own actions. Also, if I were an employer, I would offer some kind of severance package to encourage good will and transition assistance because that's what I got at my last job and I did help out the transition. So I'm curious about your point of view if taking the divorce side out of it.

    For an asset that will be 100% hers by the end of things, morally she should give back at least all the money invested to really cut out my family completely and it be completely hers. Of the invested amount, we're already expecting to lose at least half of it in an endless argument over gift vs. loan. She is now trying to weasel out on the other half as well thereby stealing 100% of the large grand sum my family had put into getting our mom and pop shop up and still end up keeping the business all to herself at the end. So in the grand scheme of things, I am not profiting from the asset but instead mitigating loss so I don't imagine a judge would hold this "smooth transition" thing against me, especially since if she really digs back in her emails and texts, she already has everything she's asking me for but is too lazy to look and would rather bully me, scapegoat me, and intimidate me into remaining a subservient abuse victim to her. There's certainly no smooth transition for me suddenly being unemployed, financially insecure, and job hunting and e-learning young kids through a quarantine!

    But again, since she is attempting to claim this as unrelated and independent to Marital Status Quo, her strategy, not mine, then we are approaching this issue divorce-free making me an ordinary employee. In that scenario, why couldn't I just block communications from the employer who just unilaterally ended their relationship with me?
    You are in a divorce proceeding and not an employment proceeding. They are two separate actions so don't intermix them. So far you have been fired from your employment. If you haven't already, you should apply for UI benefits. You were fired from an S-corp. You were not fired by your wife. The value of that business and what money was used to start the business will be worked out in the analysis of equitable distribution.

    I suggest that you read the statutes that I linked to in this post and don't put the cart before the horse.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    16,242

    Default Re: Ex-Wife/Boss: Tolerate/Stay or Go

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    NJ is an equitable distribution state and that distribution is controlled by statute and fact. So a judge adjudicating the divorce is bound by the facts and the statute. If a judge were to favor one party over the other that was outside of the law or facts, the settlement could be challenged on appeal.
    Equitable distribution in and of itself is somewhat subjective. What the judge believes to be equitable factors into any decision that is made. If the OP diminishes the value of the company because his wife could not access the computer to handle business, that factors into the mix. The OP wants to come across as the good guy, not as an equal bad guy. You giving him the impression that bad behavior on his part won't hurt him in the divorce, is unfair and misleading.

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