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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting XLawCoreo
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    You're thinking of customer theft. Employee theft is a whole different type of theft.
    Actually, no, it is not a "whole different type of theft". It's simply theft by an employee rather than a customer. But theft is theft.

    Quote Quoting XLawCoreo
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    I know from experience working with Asset Protection that one of the oldest tricks in the book is for a thief to hold a $100 bill in his hand, or large amount of cash, walk in and grab an item, leave, and then when approached by the AP team they say something hair brained like "I forgot, if I didn't forget, then why do I have a $100 bill in my hand?"

    Employee theft is different ESPECIALLY when it comes to a consumable item. The most common type of employee theft is 'over ringing' items for a friend as a cashier.
    This line of thought does not help you Thieves employ a variety of schemes to steal. Some are more common than others. But what of it? You cannot logically argue that because what you did was less common than what other employee thieves do that it is not theft. Theft is the taking of the property of another without consent of the owner. If the way you took the property was the least common ever that would still be theft. So get away from the idea that just because what did does not match the most common theft schemes out there that a court will dismiss the case. You are grasping at straws with that sort of argument.

    Quote Quoting XLawCoreo
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    Either way, the prosecution doesn't have enough evidence to convict. There is no video of me stealing anything. The "not paying" only works if they can prove that I made a conscious decision to intentionally not pay for the water. Period.
    Theft is a general intent crime. That means the prosecution only needs to prove that you intended to take the property without paying for it. The problem for you is that this is easy to do because a person is presumed to intend to do what he or she actually does. For example, if you walk to the store, it's pretty much a sure thing you intended to walk to the store because you would not have done that if you didn't intend to do it. So if you grab a bag of chips without paying for it and eat the chips, the presumption is that you intended to take the chips, not pay for them, and eat them because that is what you actually did. It would be on you to provide some compelling evidence to a jury to disprove that you didn't intend to take them without paying for them. Hint: simply testifying saying "I intended to pay for them but just forgot" isn't very persuasive as pretty much everyone who steals from a store, whether customer or employee, will try to pull that line.

    Quote Quoting XLawCoreo
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    Not paying is not stealing unless the prosecution can convince the judge that I made the conscious intentional decision to steal. No intent as I was buying 3 to 6 bottles every single day for months - on camera.
    The prosecution can rely upon the presumption I just mentioned. You'll need to convince the jury otherwise. A judge is not going to dismiss the charges based on your intent argument. That is an issue for the jury.

    Really, see a criminal defense attorney for help with this. You don't understand the law or court rules and you need someone to help you organize a viable defense (if there is one). If you proceed based on the sort of arguments you've made here you're going to have a hard time.


    Quote Quoting XLawCoreo
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    It says here in the report that I was "placed under arrest and issued a misdemeanor citation" but I was never read my miranda rights...however, I was also never taken to jail. They let me go home after I wrote a statement and was given a court date.

    Were they required to read miranda rights?
    TV shows and movies give a very bad impression of when the Miranda warning is required because it makes for good drama to show the cops reading your rights the moment they arrest you. The way the law works is that the Miranda warning is required when both of the following conditions exist at the same time: (1) you are in custody (e.g. under arrest) and (2) the cops are going to question you. So if you are not in custody the cops can question you and need not give you the Miranda warning. Or if you are in custody but the cops don't question you then Miranda is not required either. It's only when both conditions exist at the same time. If the cops do question you while you are in custody and do not give your the Miranda warning prior to questioning then the remedy is that any statements you made during questioning may be suppressed by the court and not used against you at trial. IT DOES NOT REQUIRE THE COURT TO DISMISS THE CHARGES. So if the state has sufficient evidence to go ahead and prosecute you even without the statements you made that got suppressed the case goes forward and you can still be convicted. So if you made your statement after the arrest, the cops probably needed to give you that Miranda warning, but that only matters if the state wants to use your statement against you.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    It's an entirely different kind of theft, altogether.
    It's an entirely different kind of theft.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    It's an entirely different kind of theft, altogether.
    It's an entirely different kind of theft.
    What are you trying to get at with this?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    What are you trying to get at with this?
    Quit calling me Shirley.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting XLawCoreo
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    Florida. Lack of evidence, no probable cause to arrest, it's complicated. $38 of water bottles, a bag of doritos, and deodorant. I'm on camera consuming nearly 100 bottles of unpaid water at my register and then seen paying for every single one of them except the 7 bottles I forgot. Obviously, buying 3-6 bottles each day for months, I would not make a conscious decision to steal a $2.00 bottle of water.
    I'm willing to bet that this video evidence you claim is a defense will actually work against you. More than likely it shows that you violated company policy by consuming unpaid items repeatedly, which is considered theft. Anyone I have known who worked in retail and consumed store products had to have the receipt for the items on them at the time of consumption as a matter of company policy.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    But theft is theft.
    It absolutely is not!

    Is it theft when the checker forgets to charge you for an item under your basket, and you know it?
    Is it theft when your child puts something in your purse you didn't know about?
    Is it theft when you tell the checker that you had eighteen 2x4's when you actually had twenty?
    Is it theft when your waiter leaves a few drinks off your bill and you are on camera reviewing the bill?
    Is it theft when an ATM machine spits out a hundred instead of a twenty?

    TM, I have come to a realization. You may be one of many types of attorneys, but you are not a trial attorney.

    Quote Quoting Taxing Matters
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    What are you trying to get at with this?
    He's likely drunk!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Is it theft when the checker forgets to charge you for an item under your basket, and you know it?
    If you fail to correct the error, yes it is. Is it likely to be charged? Not usually. If you are working in cahoots with the employee, both can be charged.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Is it theft when your child puts something in your purse you didn't know about?
    On the child's part, maybe. Would it be charged? Unless there were indicators that the child knew what they were doing was wrong, it shouldn't be.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Is it theft when you tell the checker that you had eighteen 2x4's when you actually had twenty?
    If you knew about the discrepancy, yes. If you fail to correct the error once you discover it, yes. Will it be charged? Probably not.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Is it theft when your waiter leaves a few drinks off your bill and you are on camera reviewing the bill?
    If the waiter says they are comping you, no. If you fail to take action to correct the error, yes. Is it likely to be charged? No.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    Is it theft when an ATM machine spits out a hundred instead of a twenty?
    If you take the money and do not return it to the bank, yes. Is it likely to be charged? Oh hell yes.

    Whether something is theft or not depends on the totality of the circumstances. If it can be shown by your actions or words that you knew what you were doing, then it's almost always going to be a slam dunk case.

    I got a love note from our resident troll!

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
    Any half-a-man that hides behind a screen by turning his online light off isn't worth responding to. Besides, your baseless law theories are boring.

    "It should, it might, it mostly likely, it can, it ought to..." All the words of a fraud!

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    It absolutely is not!
    You missed the point then. The OP was saying that a theft committed by an employee is somehow different than a theft by a customer. But under the law they are both just theft. The means the person used to accomplish the theft may be different, but regardless of who committed the crime, theft is theft. In both cases the thief is taking the property of another without consent.

    Quote Quoting CONNOR99
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    TM, I have come to a realization. You may be one of many types of attorneys, but you are not a trial attorney.
    I do litigate cases, among other things, but I'd not not expect you to know that since I've realized for awhile that you don't really understand how lawyers litigate cases or what lawyers really do. That's not a slam against you; I don't expect that nonlawyers would know that stuff (though some do). In any event, it's not really relevant to the OP's issue.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Actually, it is an entirely different kind of theft: it comes under a different section of the California Penal code (503 PC), but it ends up being punished the same as theft.

    But the distinction makes little difference. He has incriminated himself and there is evidence other than his own statements that he committed the crime. His excuses are not exculpatory: he misunderstands what "intent" means in regard to the statute, that others committed theft and were not prosecuted, and that they were somehow singling him out for his other atypical on-the-job behavior, do not mitigate the situation.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Can You Request a Motion to Dismiss at a Change of Plea Hearing

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    Actually, it is an entirely different kind of theft: it comes under a different section of the California Penal code (503 PC), but it ends up being punished the same as theft.
    But the OP is in Florida, not CA. And in Florida, the retail theft statute applies to anyone — employee or customer — stealing merchandise of the store as it does not specify any limitation to just customers. See Fl stat. 812.015.

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