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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    107

    Default Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    This hasn't happened; just curious for future reference.

    Let's say I buy something from someone in another state. Not through an online marketplace such as ebay, but let's say I find an item for sale on message board.

    Neither myself nor the seller talk about insurance. The seller ships w/o insurance, and the item is damaged during the shipping process. The carrier isn't going cover the cost of the item, as it wasn't insured.

    I think... (1) If the seller offered to ship w/insurance and I said no, this would be my problem. (2) If the seller offered to ship w/insurance and failed to, this would be his problem.

    But if there was no conversation about insurance, am I SOOL, or is the seller still responsible, even tho he can prove the item was in perfect condition when he handed it to the carrier?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    The liability would be on the company that provided the shipping (UPS, FEDEX, USPO) in accordance with the shipping agreement. Which may be zero.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,482

    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    Unless the purchase terms state otherwise, the liability remains with the seller until you accept the package. In some circumstances, the seller's liability ends when it is transferred to the carrier, but that appears probably not to be the case in your situation. It's up to the seller to chase down any claims he may have with the shipper.

    In any event, it behooves you to make sure that any item of value is insured. In some cases, the carrier gives a small amount of liability ($50/100) included.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    17,612

    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    Quote Quoting riffwraith
    View Post

    But if there was no conversation about insurance, am I SOOL, or is the seller still responsible, even tho he can prove the item was in perfect condition when he handed it to the carrier?
    Reality check. You'd probably be SOL even if the seller was "legally" responsible. After all, he's in another state, he's denying responsibility, he's ducking your calls, the shipping company is denying responsibility and ducking your calls, and you are getting nowhere. What do you do? Sue him in his state? The cost to travel, which you don't get back, will be prohibitive compared to the price of the item. Sue him in your state? Get a default judgment because he ignores it? Then try to collect from across the country?

    Buy the insurance.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    Actually AJ, none of that has happened yet.

    Quote Quoting riffwraith
    View Post
    This hasn't happened; just curious for future reference.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    Actually AJ, none of that has happened yet.
    I know. I was speculating on a possible future by using the present tense. There must be a name for that literary or logic technique but it escapes me.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    7,710

    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    Quote Quoting riffwraith
    View Post
    But if there was no conversation about insurance, am I SOOL, or is the seller still responsible, even tho he can prove the item was in perfect condition when he handed it to the carrier?
    That depends on the applicable state law. Every state but Louisiana has adopted Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). In those states, UCC 2-509 provides the rules for when risk of loss shifts from the buyer to the seller.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    325

    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    It may also come down to method of payment as to whether the buyer can get his money back. If something that didn't have buyer protection, like PayPal Friends and Family, Venmo (which is PP F&F rebranded), Chase QuickPay, etc. was used for the money transfer then the buyer has little recourse. If PayPal Goods & Services was used then the buyer could try to file a claim through them. If the buyer backed up the PayPal payment with a credit card rather than a bank account or PayPal funds, then there may be recourse through the credit card company, and then the seller would be stuck trying to collect from the buyer.

    I ship a lot of stuff and everything gets insured.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    The liability would be on the company that provided the shipping (UPS, FEDEX, USPO) in accordance with the shipping agreement. Which may be zero.

    ???

    Unless the purchase terms state otherwise, the liability remains with the seller until you accept the package.

    Right - but in this case, I wouldn't know that there was a problem until I accepted and opened the package. Unless the box was so badly damaged, and I could see the contents inside.

    Buy the insurance.

    Right way to go - just theorizing otherwise.

    Every state but Louisiana has adopted Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC). In those states, UCC 2-509 provides the rules for when risk of loss shifts from the buyer to the seller.


    UCC 2-509 Risk of loss in absence of breach.

    (A) Where the contract requires or authorizes the seller to ship the goods by carrier:

    (1) if it does not require him to deliver them at a particular destination, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are duly delivered to the carrier even though the shipment is under reservation as provided in section 1302.49 of the Revised Code; but

    (2) if it does require him to deliver them at a particular destination and the goods are there duly tendered while in the possession of the carrier, the risk of loss passes to the buyer when the goods are there duly so tendered as to enable the buyer to take delivery. [/B]


    Interesting. This basically says that I would be SOOL.

    It may also come down to method of payment as to whether the buyer can get his money back

    True. But if (let's say paypal) sides with the law, then...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    3,671

    Default Re: Item is Shipped W/O Insurance, and is Damaged During Shipping - Who's Responsible

    PayPal is going to operate under the agreement they have with you and/or the seller.

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