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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
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    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
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    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    It would appear that it's you who is going to war against your HOA, not the other way around.

    Installing a flag pole, as noted before, comes with certain legal protections that an HOA cannot get around. They're popular with the Ham radio community for that reason, you can hide an antenna in it.

    While the CC&R that you cite is a bit general I would bet there's one regarding decorations for holidays. When you chose to move to this community you gave up some control and agreed to the enforcement mechanisms in order to preserve property values, appearances, etc. I suspect that a glued on rat on top of your mail box would not be considered "first class and properly painted condition".

    There are a lot of things to square off with an HOA over but is this really one of those things? A toy rat on a mail box? Perhaps an examination of your priorities is in order if this is what grinds your gears.

    The HOA are not Nazi's. Nazi's killed millions of people for the sole reason that they were different than them - not just us Jews - and launched a global war of domination. Millions of people died to defeat them not counting those in the death camps and concentration camps. Your HOA just wants you to abide by the terms of the agreement to which you are a party. To use the word 'Nazi' in the manner that you did is to dilute who the Nazi's were/are and what they stood/stand for and the actions that they undertook and continue to strive for.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,175

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
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    If there was an actual CC&R rule regarding yard decorations and what and where can be out at the sole discretion of the board that they are fining me over, then fine I'll remove it. They are not.
    There doesn't have to be a specific prohibition against a rat on your mail box or what kind of yard art you have. It's the standards of conformity that the HOA can enforce.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    And as far as a lien? Don't they actually have to file some sort of court documents??
    No. Special rules apply to HOAs. They only have to type it up and have the document recorded. That puts the kibosh on selling or refinancing without addressing the fine.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    I also don't understand why so many here are pessimistic on how to go after a group of power hungry Nazis.
    Because he who gives up freedom for security deserves neither. That's exactly what you do when you buy a home in an HOA. You put yourself at the mercy of the power hungry Nazis.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    So, I can pay whatever fine and then take to small claims??
    Nope. It's like a traffic ticket. Once you pay the fine you are done. If you want to litigate, you litigate before you pay. You file suit for a declaratory judgment and injunction against the HOA. If you lose you'll pay the HOAs lawyer fees as well as your own.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
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    Would getting a list of my neighbors that are ok with it help?
    I would be surprised if your neighbors would be willing to incur the wrath of the HOA Nazis.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    373

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
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    While the CC&R that you cite is a bit general I would bet there's one regarding decorations for holidays.
    Since there's a holiday practically every month, change the rat decoration for something appropriate.
    Valentine's Day (Cupid)
    St Patrick's Day (Leprechaun)
    Easter (Bunny)
    etc.

    Just keep it tasteful.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,175

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
    View Post

    The HOA are not Nazi's. Nazi's killed millions of people for the sole reason that they were different than them - not just us Jews - and launched a global war of domination. Millions of people died to defeat them not counting those in the death camps and concentration camps. Your HOA just wants you to abide by the terms of the agreement to which you are a party. To use the word 'Nazi' in the manner that you did is to dilute who the Nazi's were/are and what they stood/stand for and the actions that they undertook and continue to strive for.
    I'm a Jew and I disagree. The word Nazi in any manner, whether pejorative to describe control freaks (HOA Nazi, Soup Nazi) or satirical (The Producers 1967, remade in 2005), is a warning that genocide and hegemony should not be tolerated anywhere. Younger generations who might never watch or read the documentaries may (hopefully) be curious at the mention of Nazi and get an education in what it means.

  5. #15

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting PayrolGuy
    View Post
    We have no idea what they are going after you for other than what you wrote.

    Saying others are getting away with whatever isn't going to help you much.
    There is no case about selective persecution?

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    There doesn't have to be a specific prohibition against a rat on your mail box or what kind of yard art you have. It's the standards of conformity that the HOA can enforce.



    No. Special rules apply to HOAs. They only have to type it up and have the document recorded. That puts the kibosh on selling or refinancing without addressing the fine.



    Because he who gives up freedom for security deserves neither. That's exactly what you do when you buy a home in an HOA. You put yourself at the mercy of the power hungry Nazis.



    Nope. It's like a traffic ticket. Once you pay the fine you are done. If you want to litigate, you litigate before you pay. You file suit for a declaratory judgment and injunction against the HOA. If you lose you'll pay the HOAs lawyer fees as well as your own.



    I would be surprised if your neighbors would be willing to incur the wrath of the HOA Nazis.
    Thanks for the insight and not judging.
    Why couldn't I file a small claims suit against them? Can I drag a board member into small claims.
    My beef is the selective persecution and this ability, I guess, to just slap a lien on someone with zero accountability or proof that one did violate the CC&R's? Is that not what the courts are for?

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    It would appear that it's you who is going to war against your HOA, not the other way around.

    Installing a flag pole, as noted before, comes with certain legal protections that an HOA cannot get around. They're popular with the Ham radio community for that reason, you can hide an antenna in it.

    While the CC&R that you cite is a bit general I would bet there's one regarding decorations for holidays. When you chose to move to this community you gave up some control and agreed to the enforcement mechanisms in order to preserve property values, appearances, etc. I suspect that a glued on rat on top of your mail box would not be considered "first class and properly painted condition".

    There are a lot of things to square off with an HOA over but is this really one of those things? A toy rat on a mail box? Perhaps an examination of your priorities is in order if this is what grinds your gears.

    The HOA are not Nazi's. Nazi's killed millions of people for the sole reason that they were different than them - not just us Jews - and launched a global war of domination. Millions of people died to defeat them not counting those in the death camps and concentration camps. Your HOA just wants you to abide by the terms of the agreement to which you are a party. To use the word 'Nazi' in the manner that you did is to dilute who the Nazi's were/are and what they stood/stand for and the actions that they undertook and continue to strive for.
    Priorities are fine. It's the principle. Just like the flag pole. They threatened the same way even after I sent them the U.S. and California laws. Rats are a normal animal that we live with and my mail man likes it. It's the year of the rat by the way. My point is it is very unobtrusive compared to a lot of this people have out on display. A drive around the neighborhood and I saw everything from Gnomes to goats etc. I don't see how my rat harms the HOA anymore than these other things.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,175

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
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    There is no case about selective persecution?
    You mean selective enforcement but I get your point. That may be a defense against a lawsuit, if you get sued. But claiming it without litigation is meaningless.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    Why couldn't I file a small claims suit against them? Can I drag a board member into small claims.
    I already explained that. It's like a traffic ticket. Once you pay it, it's a conviction, whether you admit to the infraction or not. You don't get to sue the cop for pulling you over.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    My beef is the selective persecution and this ability, I guess, to just slap a lien on someone with zero accountability or proof that one did violate the CC&R's? Is that not what the courts are for?
    Not for HOAs. There's a separate set of laws that apply. The CC&Rs are a contract that you agreed to be bound by when you bought the property. In other words you agreed to be fined if you didn't conform. You agreed to a lien on your property if you don't pay the fines. You agreed to be subjugated to HOA board members. If you want to go to court you have to be the one to initiate litigation to see if you can put a stop to what's happening to you. The HOA Nazis (oops - board members) can just steamroll you with the stroke of a pen.

    I don't live in an HOA. Never have, never will.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post

    I don't see how my rat harms the HOA anymore than these other things.
    Watch this movie and maybe it'll inspire you:

    https://www.amazon.com/Willard-Bruce...0365871&sr=8-1


  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    47.606 N 122.332 W in body, still at 90 S in my mind.
    Posts
    1,665

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    I'm a Jew and I disagree. The word Nazi in any manner, whether pejorative to describe control freaks (HOA Nazi, Soup Nazi) or satirical (The Producers 1967, remade in 2005), is a warning that genocide and hegemony should not be tolerated anywhere. Younger generations who might never watch or read the documentaries may (hopefully) be curious at the mention of Nazi and get an education in what it means.
    I'm also a Jew and we'll have to disagree. There are times that it doesn't bother me - like the Soup Nazi - but now it's used in such a way that it's losing its meaning. It's used, often, as a weapon against those whom we disagree with, who enforce the rules of our society, in this case the HOA, and it's a cheap rhetorical trick.

    Priorities are fine. It's the principle. Just like the flag pole. They threatened the same way even after I sent them the U.S. and California laws. Rats are a normal animal that we live with and my mail man likes it. It's the year of the rat by the way. My point is it is very unobtrusive compared to a lot of this people have out on display. A drive around the neighborhood and I saw everything from Gnomes to goats etc. I don't see how my rat harms the HOA anymore than these other things.
    IT doesn't matter if the mailman likes it and the CCR&Rs of your community, that you agreed to when you moved in, supersede those laws (which ever specific laws you're referring to). Just because your neighbors are doing it doesn't cancel out your violation, it just means that they, too, are in violation and are subject to fines IF they are truly in violation.

    If you want absolute control of your property do what's suggested above. Move to a place with no HOA.
    "Where do those stairs go?"
    "They go up!"

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,007

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    If there was an actual CC&R rule regarding yard decorations and what and where can be out at the sole discretion of the board that they are fining me over, then fine I'll remove it. They are not. And as far as a lien? Don't they actually have to file some sort of court documents??
    I don't agree with most of the respondents in this thread. I agree with you that absent specific CC&Rs on the subject matter, the Board can't require you to do or not do anything. To cite you on a CC&R that requires you to keep your property in good repair and appearance does not extend to yard art.

    As to the lien, my reading of the California condominium law:

    Title 7. Planning and Land Use
    Division 2. Subdivisions
    Chapter 2. Maps
    Article 1. General Provisions

    https://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/Docum...A-condo-15.pdf

    The only liens that can be placed on the property are for those maintenance fees and special assessment fees that are voted on by the board and approve by the membership. A violation of the CC&Rs (and a fine) is not something that a lien can be recorded for without judicial review.

    Small claims court is a court of equity and while your claim may be founded in a breach of contract, I don't think you would get the result in that court.



    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    There doesn't have to be a specific prohibition against a rat on your mail box or what kind of yard art you have. It's the standards of conformity that the HOA can enforce..
    And where would one find that standard of conformity in the CC&Rs if there is no article addressing it?

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    No. Special rules apply to HOAs. They only have to type it up and have the document recorded. That puts the kibosh on selling or refinancing without addressing the fine.
    See the California Condominium law linked to above and see if you can find where violation of the CC&Rs can result in a lien without judicial review.

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    There is no case about selective persecution?
    Why couldn't I file a small claims suit against them? Can I drag a board member into small claims.
    My beef is the selective persecution and this ability, I guess, to just slap a lien on someone with zero accountability or proof that one did violate the CC&R's? Is that not what the courts are for?
    Sure there is a case of selective persecution. It is called the Board is being arbitrary and capricious in its enforcement of the CC&Rs. But that is not something that can be argued in small claims court.

  9. #19

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Mark47n
    View Post
    I'm also a Jew and we'll have to disagree. There are times that it doesn't bother me - like the Soup Nazi - but now it's used in such a way that it's losing its meaning. It's used, often, as a weapon against those whom we disagree with, who enforce the rules of our society, in this case the HOA, and it's a cheap rhetorical trick.



    IT doesn't matter if the mailman likes it and the CCR&Rs of your community, that you agreed to when you moved in, supersede those laws (which ever specific laws you're referring to). Just because your neighbors are doing it doesn't cancel out your violation, it just means that they, too, are in violation and are subject to fines IF they are truly in violation.

    If you want absolute control of your property do what's suggested above. Move to a place with no HOA.
    The reason I called them HOA Nazis is that they aren't enforcing the rules of "society", they are enforcing their own control and picking and choosing who they go after.

    Quote Quoting budwad
    View Post
    I don't agree with most of the respondents in this thread. I agree with you that absent specific CC&Rs on the subject matter, the Board can't require you to do or not do anything. To cite you on a CC&R that requires you to keep your property in good repair and appearance does not extend to yard art.

    As to the lien, my reading of the California condominium law:

    Title 7. Planning and Land Use
    Division 2. Subdivisions
    Chapter 2. Maps
    Article 1. General Provisions

    https://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/Docum...A-condo-15.pdf

    The only liens that can be placed on the property are for those maintenance fees and special assessment fees that are voted on by the board and approve by the membership. A violation of the CC&Rs (and a fine) is not something that a lien can be recorded for without judicial review.

    Small claims court is a court of equity and while your claim may be founded in a breach of contract, I don't think you would get the result in that court.





    And where would one find that standard of conformity in the CC&Rs if there is no article addressing it?



    See the California Condominium law linked to above and see if you can find where violation of the CC&Rs can result in a lien without judicial review.



    Sure there is a case of selective persecution. It is called the Board is being arbitrary and capricious in its enforcement of the CC&Rs. But that is not something that can be argued in small claims court.
    Thanks for the breakdown of info.

    At this hearing I'm to attend, is there any rules about recording it? Video and audio and then posting it on social media? At a previous meeting they kicked my brother and me out and violated I believe was the Brown Act (was during a normal meeting, not executive session and we were not disruptive) Am I entitled to any executive minutes or memos etc regarding my case?
    One of the big errors they did was they did not give me at least 10 days notice.

    Thanks to all that have posted info on how to further my case and not judge me on it.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    7,007

    Default Re: HOA at War with Me

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post

    At this hearing I'm to attend, is there any rules about recording it?
    Sure is. CA is a two party consent state meaning that if the parties to the audio and visual don't agree to allow the recording, then you can't do it.


    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    Video and audio and then posting it on social media? At a previous meeting they kicked my brother and me out and violated I believe was the Brown Act (was during a normal meeting, not executive session and we were not disruptive)
    To what advantage is it to you to post a dispute with your HOA on social media?

    Quote Quoting Riker0007
    View Post
    Am I entitled to any executive minutes or memos etc regarding my case?
    One of the big errors they did was they did not give me at least 10 days notice..
    Whether or not you are entitled to executive minutes and other closed door documents that are produced in a closed door executive secession and under what circumstances) is founded in the four corners of your contract (the CC&Rs). If a HOA was a public body, it would be a different story.

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